Since tonight makes 100 years, lets try this; WI enough soldiers on both sides realize that there is nothing that can be done to make either side have a decisive advantage, and that millions of them will die for no real purpose. So a small cease fire spreads all over the Western Front, and enough junior officers support the idea of extending the truce to New Years and beyond. Basically, the men on both sides refuse to go back to killing each other for nothing, and to hell with what the high command wills. Obviously, nobody is thinking ahead to what might happen if the AEF ever arrives, and this doesn't affect the Eastern Front at all. Thoughts?
AH challenge: make the 1914 Christmas truce permanent.
- Thread starter oudi14
- Start date
TFSmith121
Banned
Equivalent of the 1917 "mutinies" three years earlier?
Equivalent of the 1917 "mutinies" three years earlier? Seems like even the French and the British armies (especially the war-raised elements) took until 1916 to get to that point, unfortunately.
Best,
Equivalent of the 1917 "mutinies" three years earlier? Seems like even the French and the British armies (especially the war-raised elements) took until 1916 to get to that point, unfortunately.
Best,
You're probably right. But I had several family members die in this foolish war, and I would like to find some plausible way where they might not have. With AH, anything is possible. What a difference it might have made, if the senseless slaughter had not gone beyond Dec. 24, 1914. No WW2, perhaps?
A ASB TL of this would be good. A Alien Space Bat makes the German and British armies on the Western Front stop fighting and go home.
Why must it be ASB? They've already seen enough slaughter since August to realize that any more fighting is pointless; that nobody can win.
Perhaps, how about a big naval battle about a week before along with massive slaughter and anti war sentiment plus the Germans doing worse in the eastern front? Or does the pod need to be after 24 December 1914?
If not, maybe these circumstances could do the trick:
1] The Germans and British go on a destructive naval battle in 1914 and both sides suffer severe losses to their fleets, but the British get a pyrrhic victory [or mutual destruction], however the Germans are panicked enough to send one of their corps to the coastline temporarily. Or vice versa.
2] Russians coordinate their armies and invade East Prussia successfully, destroying the 8th Army instead of getting Tannenberg [for some reason before 1914] in September.
3] As a result of butterflies, the Germans are down several divisions less on the western front and the 1st army is encircled. However, the strains and logistics on the French result in themselves suffering heavier casualties and getting several troops encircled.
4] By the time the French reach the Aisne, the Germans are well prepared and inflict bigger casualties on the French. The Germans are able to advance further and capture all of Belgium.
5] The French, Belgian and British troops try to attack, but suffer heavier casualties with Belgium and the Channel ports are captured.
6] Meanwhile, the Austrians stop attacking Serbia after facing defeats or they manage to defeat Serbia and transfer the troops to the east.
7] Plus, maybe an Italy joining the Central Powers and suffering heavy casualties on the Alpine front.
Are these circumstances possible? And, will they lead to the Christmas truce worthy of peace signed among the sides?
If not, maybe these circumstances could do the trick:
1] The Germans and British go on a destructive naval battle in 1914 and both sides suffer severe losses to their fleets, but the British get a pyrrhic victory [or mutual destruction], however the Germans are panicked enough to send one of their corps to the coastline temporarily. Or vice versa.
2] Russians coordinate their armies and invade East Prussia successfully, destroying the 8th Army instead of getting Tannenberg [for some reason before 1914] in September.
3] As a result of butterflies, the Germans are down several divisions less on the western front and the 1st army is encircled. However, the strains and logistics on the French result in themselves suffering heavier casualties and getting several troops encircled.
4] By the time the French reach the Aisne, the Germans are well prepared and inflict bigger casualties on the French. The Germans are able to advance further and capture all of Belgium.
5] The French, Belgian and British troops try to attack, but suffer heavier casualties with Belgium and the Channel ports are captured.
6] Meanwhile, the Austrians stop attacking Serbia after facing defeats or they manage to defeat Serbia and transfer the troops to the east.
7] Plus, maybe an Italy joining the Central Powers and suffering heavy casualties on the Alpine front.
Are these circumstances possible? And, will they lead to the Christmas truce worthy of peace signed among the sides?
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Why not? People died in multitudes there too. Better communications from the original truce, joined by the socialist international, christians, and others, and everything warlike just withers away.
Yuelang
Banned
A very "oscar worthy" ASB:
The Pope slipped past Rome sightly more than a week before, appearing in Western front at the time of Christmas truce, in front of trucing soldiers.
The next day, the Pope hold joint Christmas mass on No Man's land. All British, French, and German Catholics present attend and heed the Pope's call to end the conflict. Some of the Protestants also attend there as well.
The Pope then build a tent on No man's land and declare his intention to not move from here unless formal end of the war declared.
Patriarch of Constantinople also does the same thing in Eastern Front too...
Result, both are canonized as Saints
The Pope slipped past Rome sightly more than a week before, appearing in Western front at the time of Christmas truce, in front of trucing soldiers.
The next day, the Pope hold joint Christmas mass on No Man's land. All British, French, and German Catholics present attend and heed the Pope's call to end the conflict. Some of the Protestants also attend there as well.
The Pope then build a tent on No man's land and declare his intention to not move from here unless formal end of the war declared.
Patriarch of Constantinople also does the same thing in Eastern Front too...
Result, both are canonized as Saints
You'd need the brass to have a little more Christmas spirit. Maybe the spirits of Christmas past, present and future visit the commanders, who in the morning decide to end the war 
TFSmith121
Banned
Agreed on the possibilities; just unfortunately have
Agreed on the possibilities; just have misgivings on human nature.
One possibility is the religious opposition; having major figures (the pope, the patriarch, Archbishop of Canterbury) go to the fronts would be evocative, but obviously, it did not happen historically, so you'd need some major changes there...
Best, and all the blessings of the season
Agreed on the possibilities; just have misgivings on human nature.
One possibility is the religious opposition; having major figures (the pope, the patriarch, Archbishop of Canterbury) go to the fronts would be evocative, but obviously, it did not happen historically, so you'd need some major changes there...
Best, and all the blessings of the season
Kaiser Wilhelm's talent for erratic behavior could always trigger, he seems to have easily been swayed by romantic notions that flew in the face of good sense. If somehow he was sufficiently moved by the truce (rather than horrified as I understand he and most other parts of the old order were) to run to the nearest radio and celebrate "The powerful influence of the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ!" or something in that vein. That might just have slowed things up enough for everybody (or at least a few somebodies) to realize the quagmire they'd all stumbled in to. Maybe he just needs to have the right dream Christmas eve and for once his talent for saying things without thinking about them does the world a favor rather than not.
Surely the general staff would be in convulsions, but he seems to me to be the one guy who had the right combination of visibility, political power and requisite insanity (any other head of state else would have consulted their general staff and either been talked out of it or locked away from the halls of power) to have been able to stop up the merry business of getting back to the war long enough for the Pope and the like to manage something like parking in no man's land.
It'd have to be a heck of a dream, and a damn shame something like it didn't happen, but I think it'd be a cute way to use Willy's impulsiveness for good instead of stupid.
Surely the general staff would be in convulsions, but he seems to me to be the one guy who had the right combination of visibility, political power and requisite insanity (any other head of state else would have consulted their general staff and either been talked out of it or locked away from the halls of power) to have been able to stop up the merry business of getting back to the war long enough for the Pope and the like to manage something like parking in no man's land.
It'd have to be a heck of a dream, and a damn shame something like it didn't happen, but I think it'd be a cute way to use Willy's impulsiveness for good instead of stupid.
Very true, but it was still at considerable cost. The US was not as affected, but in England the number of dead, and moreso wounded, was a major percentage.
Yes, but what would have happened if the AEF had not come? I believe the stalemate might have just dragged on indefinitely. And I'm not trying to open a debate about the events of 1918, either; but in Dec. of '14, everybody could see the horrible slaughter for no real gain, and the Entente could not have imagined that the Americans might come some day and save them. Anyhow, the general consensus seems to be that the fighting could not stop, no matter how pointless it was, so my AH challenge of last night [right about the time the Germans were singing 'Stille Nacht' 100 years earlier] didn't succeed. No problem.
Garrison
Donor
Again no, by December 1914 all sides still entertained a belief in victory and the losses had not been huge. For the French and the Belgians such a truce would have meant leaving the Germans on their soil and for the Germans withdrawing really would have made the losses futile. The Christmas truce isn't rememebered with the same warm fuzzy view in France as it is in the UK as this BBC article discusses:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30433729
The fact is the political and miltary will was there to go on and what happened at Christmas 1914 was an aberration that was not repeated.
Same problem, neither side was willing to give ground. literally.
Very true, but it was still at considerable cost. The US was not as affected, but in England the number of dead, and moreso wounded, was a major percentage.
Quite true but this 'futile war' notion denigrates those losses by ignoring the hard fought victory they won.