Alternate Muskets
- Thread starter Stephen
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Stephen
Banned
Most of what I know about them comes from here:
The Project Gutenberg eBook of How It Works, by Archibald Williams.
Spark gap transmiters were made obselete by the invention of vacuum tubes in the 1920's which allowed the much more precise creation of high frequency alternating curents to aply to the ariel. And the amplification of audio signals, berore the valve radio was limited to morse code. Anover way of producing a signal towards the end of the pre-valve era was the use of very large high rpm AC dynamos.
Alot of early radio heads saved money by making there own hand made vacuum tubes out of jam jars. So there is no reason that ATL genius's could not create radio and other early electrics in a pre industrial pre steam era. In fact it could be argued that if you have the theory they would be allot easier to make than the first steam engines as Watt had great dificulty getting pistons that fit.
Some thoughts on the propellant question.
Cordite, the more or less standard WWI propellant consists typically (there are variations) of nitroglycerin, guncotton and petroleum jelly.
Of these, petroleum jelly has been known since Biblical times.
Nitroglycerin was first synthesized in 1847. It consists of glycerin (a byproduct of soap making and known pretty much forever); oleum (a mixture of sulphuric acid and sulphur trioxide) ; and azeotropic nitric acid.
Of those, nitric acid was known by the alchemists and, earlier the Arabs. The azeotropic form can be made (in small quantities) from fuming sulphuric acid and nitrates (nitrates being a constituent of gunpowder, so they are available).
That leaves oleum as the determinator. This was discovered in 1831. There is no reason why that discovery couldn't be handwaved back a century or more.
So , on a small scale , and ignoring cost, nitroglycerin could have been discovered as early as, say, 1700.
The other constituent of cordite, guncotton was discovered in 1832 , by accident. It requires only nitric acid and cotton (duh) . The discovery could easily be handwaved forward to 1700.
The extrusion process which produces the "cords" is not complex on a small scale - it is essentially similar to making spaghetti !
So ON A SMALL SCALE and IGNORING COST, cordite *could* have been manufactured in 1700 , or even earlier.
The devil of course is in the scale, the cost, and the likelihood of those several discoveries all being made earlier. But that is a matter of probability , not possibility.
Cue vast halls full of hundreds of alchemists making a litre or two of oleum and nitric acid at a time! Expect many very loud explosions, and a lot of deaths along the way!
EDIT: The cording process also requires acetone. This was not known as such (I think) until the C19, but the fermentation process which was once used to make it could have been discovered by happenchance several centuries earlier - it is related to vinegar production, vinegar being (basically) dilute acetic acid
Cordite, the more or less standard WWI propellant consists typically (there are variations) of nitroglycerin, guncotton and petroleum jelly.
Of these, petroleum jelly has been known since Biblical times.
Nitroglycerin was first synthesized in 1847. It consists of glycerin (a byproduct of soap making and known pretty much forever); oleum (a mixture of sulphuric acid and sulphur trioxide) ; and azeotropic nitric acid.
Of those, nitric acid was known by the alchemists and, earlier the Arabs. The azeotropic form can be made (in small quantities) from fuming sulphuric acid and nitrates (nitrates being a constituent of gunpowder, so they are available).
That leaves oleum as the determinator. This was discovered in 1831. There is no reason why that discovery couldn't be handwaved back a century or more.
So , on a small scale , and ignoring cost, nitroglycerin could have been discovered as early as, say, 1700.
The other constituent of cordite, guncotton was discovered in 1832 , by accident. It requires only nitric acid and cotton (duh) . The discovery could easily be handwaved forward to 1700.
The extrusion process which produces the "cords" is not complex on a small scale - it is essentially similar to making spaghetti !
So ON A SMALL SCALE and IGNORING COST, cordite *could* have been manufactured in 1700 , or even earlier.
The devil of course is in the scale, the cost, and the likelihood of those several discoveries all being made earlier. But that is a matter of probability , not possibility.
Cue vast halls full of hundreds of alchemists making a litre or two of oleum and nitric acid at a time! Expect many very loud explosions, and a lot of deaths along the way!
EDIT: The cording process also requires acetone. This was not known as such (I think) until the C19, but the fermentation process which was once used to make it could have been discovered by happenchance several centuries earlier - it is related to vinegar production, vinegar being (basically) dilute acetic acid
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You also have the problem that gun cotton and nitroglycerin tend to be really unstable if you don't have PURE acids. Getting the chemistry to get sufficiently pure acid will be interesting.
Actually, I'd believe your lab bench comment. Making a couple of ounces, even pounds might be doable. Anything more is ... tough.
I see where he went wrong. He made the bullets much too elongated. Such a bullet would take rifled barrels to stabilize, but even Minie balls were not THAT elongated.
The reason the Nessler balls were so much more squat than the modern shotgun slug of similar design is because the Nessler ball was made of iron and would elongate in the process of being fired. Modern shotgun slugs are made of steel and so are made with the proper elongated shape.
Induction coil is not necessary for igniting gunpowder. All it takes is some sparks.
Stephen
Banned
NO they are both made from lead not iron or steel. Looking at the Nestler and the shotgun slug I think the most important factor is that the cavity takes up the majority of the length, so that the center of mass is towards the front as much as posible. I think one of Davinci's the bullets Is enough like that to work on a smoothbore but rifled barrels date back that far anyway. If somone tried to manufacture that bullet they would likely shorten the desighn as a shorter mold would be easier to make and extract a bullet from.
And the most reliable way to obtain a spark is with an induction coil. I had a brief look at the piezo ignitor on a freinds BBQ and it looked like it had a small induction coil in it.
Very intrigued by this. Guncotton can be granulated for a good smokekless powder. IMHO you would be wiser to try Poudre Brun, with charcoal replaced by carbonised rye straw. This would ensure that the mixture of sulphur and nitre was more intimately mixed with the 'charcoal'.
Why go for piezo-electric ignition? The effects of powder buildup and shock would block and shatter that system. Fulminate caps and bandoliers or paper cartridges have the advantage that they actually work. A flintlock is again a robust system matched only by a wheel-lock.
You may like to introduce the RPG1/Panzerfaust with a shaped-charge head. It is portable artillery with some of the advantages of a bazooka, a mortar and a rifle-grenade..
The problem with both guncotton and cordite is that the Devil is in the Detail. Nitroglycerine (NG) is only stable at high purity and in a narrow range of temperature unless mixed with a stabiliser such as acetone. Acetone can considerably increase stability. There are several sources of acetone - distillation of wood and horse chestnuts is historical, modern production being from isopropyl alcohol. For a short period Chaim Weizmann made acetone by fermentation of maize - this was abandoned in the 1920s in Britain, but gave acetone for naval propellant.
Hope this helps.
Why go for piezo-electric ignition? The effects of powder buildup and shock would block and shatter that system. Fulminate caps and bandoliers or paper cartridges have the advantage that they actually work. A flintlock is again a robust system matched only by a wheel-lock.
You may like to introduce the RPG1/Panzerfaust with a shaped-charge head. It is portable artillery with some of the advantages of a bazooka, a mortar and a rifle-grenade..
The problem with both guncotton and cordite is that the Devil is in the Detail. Nitroglycerine (NG) is only stable at high purity and in a narrow range of temperature unless mixed with a stabiliser such as acetone. Acetone can considerably increase stability. There are several sources of acetone - distillation of wood and horse chestnuts is historical, modern production being from isopropyl alcohol. For a short period Chaim Weizmann made acetone by fermentation of maize - this was abandoned in the 1920s in Britain, but gave acetone for naval propellant.
Hope this helps.
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