Edward VIII has a legitimate son from a previous marriage before meeting Wallis Simpson

[VVD0D95]

So, this is something I was wondering today.

Let's say Edward VIII through pressure from his father and mother, marries a nice British girl in 1920, they have a son named George Edward Arthur Frederick or some such in 1921, Edward's wife dies in 1925, from an illness or complications resulting from childbirth. Edward is now single, and has done his duty by producing an heir. He meets Wallis Simpson at a party like otl, he falls in love with her, she becomes his mistress-whether she loves him or not is up in the air- when George V dies in 1936, Edward becomes King, but he wants to marry Wallis, what happens?

Does he abdicate and marry Wallis, leaving his fifteen year old son to pick up the burden, or does he keep her as his mistress and become King?

Thoughts on the consequences of both are welcome!

 

[GDIS Pathe]

IIRC Edward was infertile

 

[desmirelle]

So, we're butterflying the mumps he had in adolescence that left him physically underdeveloped and probably sterile? (There was also concern about brother Albert until his wife became pregnant.)

He'd remarry before he meets Wallis. His rebellious 'only married women' streak against his father will have fallen at the proverbial first hurdle. So, another British beauty would be found and he would marry her to give his child a mother, given his revulsion about his own childhood. The public that idolized him will clamor for a mother for the poor boy. Wallis would be another affair, wouldn't divorce Ernest in hopes of becoming Queen (if she didn't want to be Queen, why the strategic timing of her second divorce?) - although she might divorce Ernest when Katherine Rogers dies in hopes of marrying Herman (if you believe Andrew Morton).

My vote is that Wallis is just another affair and there is no abdication crisis until WW2, when E8 keeps voicing support for Hitler. Don't know that it would come to abdication, but he would go down as the worst king and the British monarchy will be in crisis at the worst possible moment for it.

 

[VVD0D95]

IIRC Edward was infertile

Really?

So, we're butterflying the mumps he had in adolescence that left him physically underdeveloped and probably sterile? (There was also concern about brother Albert until his wife became pregnant.)

He'd remarry before he meets Wallis. His rebellious 'only married women' streak against his father will have fallen at the proverbial first hurdle. So, another British beauty would be found and he would marry her to give his child a mother, given his revulsion about his own childhood. The public that idolized him will clamor for a mother for the poor boy. Wallis would be another affair, wouldn't divorce Ernest in hopes of becoming Queen (if she didn't want to be Queen, why the strategic timing of her second divorce?) - although she might divorce Ernest when Katherine Rogers dies in hopes of marrying Herman (if you believe Andrew Morton).

My vote is that Wallis is just another affair and there is no abdication crisis until WW2, when E8 keeps voicing support for Hitler. Don't know that it would come to abdication, but he would go down as the worst king and the British monarchy will be in crisis at the worst possible moment for it.

and yes, I’d think that if true would need to be removed?

And interesting do you think as king he’d keep voicing support for Hitler? As king? Is he thay thick?

 

[desmirelle]

Yes, he was that thick. If he'd not been that thick, he'd have given Ernest Simpson a title so he (E8) was marrying Lady or Baroness or Viscountess Simpson and he'd have issued Letters Patent that she would become upon marriage to him an HRH. He didn't want to be King and she was a great reason - two husbands living, totally unacceptable to his subjects (except the aristocracy, which didn't like her nation of birth). He was still saying Hitler should have been handled better well AFTER WW2, and before leaving for the Bahamas agreed to return to the continent upon receiving a code word after being told about Hitler's proposal to bomb Britain to pieces, remove the current King and re-seat Edward.

Wallis wanted to be Queen. She was the poor relation in a wealthy, high in society family.

The scenario you're proposing changes the character of this particular Prince of Wales. He hated that he had to 'get permission' and after years of abuse and criticism from his father, apparently decided he would never become involved with what his father would consider "acceptable" women. Which explains all his married mistresses.

 

[VVD0D95]

Yes, he was that thick. If he'd not been that thick, he'd have given Ernest Simpson a title so he (E8) was marrying Lady or Baroness or Viscountess Simpson and he'd have issued Letters Patent that she would become upon marriage to him an HRH. He didn't want to be King and she was a great reason - two husbands living, totally unacceptable to his subjects (except the aristocracy, which didn't like her nation of birth). He was still saying Hitler should have been handled better well AFTER WW2, and before leaving for the Bahamas agreed to return to the continent upon receiving a code word after being told about Hitler's proposal to bomb Britain to pieces, remove the current King and re-seat Edward.

Wallis wanted to be Queen. She was the poor relation in a wealthy, high in society family.

The scenario you're proposing changes the character of this particular Prince of Wales. He hated that he had to 'get permission' and after years of abuse and criticism from his father, apparently decided he would never become involved with what his father would consider "acceptable" women. Which explains all his married mistresses.

Hmm very interesting, so the. If he does have a son a legitimate one, would it be better for all involved if he suffered a tragic accident before becoming king?

 

[Jonathan]

Who does he marry to produce King Edward IX, it needs to be either a British noblewoman or a Princess from a neutral monarchy.

- Helen, Queen Mother of Romania
- Princess Irina Alexandrovna of Russia
- Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna
- Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna
- Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna
- Marie-Adélaïde, Grand Duchess of Luxembourg (if she converts from Catholicism)
- Lady Amy Gwendolin Gordon-Lennox, daughter of Charles Gordon-Lennox, 8th Duke of Richmond
- Lady Blanche Linnie Somerset (1897–1968) or Lady Diana Maud Nina Somerset (12 September 1898 – 6 May 1935) daughters of Henry Somerset, 9th Duke of Beaufort

 

[VVD0D95]

Who does he marry to produce King Edward IX, it needs to be either a British noblewoman or a Princess from a neutral monarchy.

- Helen, Queen Mother of Romania
- Princess Irina Alexandrovna of Russia
- Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna
- Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna
- Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna
- Marie-Adélaïde, Grand Duchess of Luxembourg (if she converts from Catholicism)
- Lady Amy Gwendolin Gordon-Lennox, daughter of Charles Gordon-Lennox, 8th Duke of Richmond
- Lady Blanche Linnie Somerset (1897–1968) or Lady Diana Maud Nina Somerset (12 September 1898 – 6 May 1935) daughters of Henry Somerset, 9th Duke of Beaufort

Hmm either Helen, or perhaps Amy Gordon Lennox would be good

 

[QueenMaud]

- Martha of Sweden
- Margareth of Sweden
- Astrid of Sweden
- Elisabeth of Greece and denmark

 

[Livius wannabe]

So, we're butterflying the mumps he had in adolescence that left him physically underdeveloped and probably sterile?

Is this what his private secretary Alan Lascelles referred to when he said that Edward's development "stopped dead when he reached adolescence" and the lack of a five o'clock shadow?

 

[desmirelle]

Is this what his private secretary Alan Lascelles referred to when he said that Edward's development "stopped dead when he reached adolescence" and the lack of a five o'clock shadow?

Yes. I think it also explains his inability to come to adult mental conclusions (like the Hitler theory), his rebellious streak about dating 'acceptable' women, and his refusal to accept the fact that by abdicating he was no longer in charge (he kept phoning his brother King George VI with advice contrary to that of the minister's until he was forced to stop and was stunned when told His Majesty would be telephoning at a certain time and not when HRH Duke of Windsor wanted to call).

 

[troosvelt_68]

I once toyed with a timeline where he met and married and had a couple children before dying himself in the late 20's

Resulting in a teenage King in 1936 and a very young one during WW2

And if he was as long lived as Elizabeth, potentially still on the throne today

 

[VVD0D95]

I once toyed with a timeline where he met and married and had a couple children before dying himself in the late 20's

Resulting in a teenage King in 1936 and a very young one during WW2

And if he was as long lived as Elizabeth, potentially still on the throne today

That sounds pretty interesting

 

[VVD0D95]

I once toyed with a timeline where he met and married and had a couple children before dying himself in the late 20's

Resulting in a teenage King in 1936 and a very young one during WW2

And if he was as long lived as Elizabeth, potentially still on the throne today

I’m toying with him marrying having a son, ascending in 36 and dying a few months later

 

[desmirelle]

According to "Royal Feud" (by Michael Bloch), Lady Victor Paget informed him in a private interview in 1972 that Lady Rosemary Levenson-Gower had been proposed to by the Prince of Wales many times right after WWI. She claimed that Lady Rosemary was reluctant, but was willing to try until she learned that her much-married mother and drunk, multiple-bankrupted uncle were unacceptable to the King and it was then that the Prince of Wales swore never to marry an acceptable woman. I have doubts on the recounting of Lady Paget: she was remembering something that happened 50 years earlier, the writer was looking for a reason why David (what E8's family called him) never married and always had married mistresses so it made her important in a small way. She died in 1975 and the book wasn't published until 1985, so I wonder about Bloch's recollection of the interview as well. I'm especially suspect of Lady Paget's memory since the 'multiple proposals' was the courtship story of David's brother Albert (future George VI) and Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (except that her family was more than acceptable). It sounds like David deliberately picked a woman he knew his father wouldn't approve (what a surprise! not.) beginning with his return from WWI.

 

[VVD0D95]

According to "Royal Feud" (by Michael Bloch), Lady Victor Paget informed him in a private interview in 1972 that Lady Rosemary Levenson-Gower had been proposed to by the Prince of Wales many times right after WWI. She claimed that Lady Rosemary was reluctant, but was willing to try until she learned that her much-married mother and drunk, multiple-bankrupted uncle were unacceptable to the King and it was then that the Prince of Wales swore never to marry an acceptable woman. I have doubts on the recounting of Lady Paget: she was remembering something that happened 50 years earlier, the writer was looking for a reason why David (what E8's family called him) never married and always had married mistresses so it made her important in a small way. She died in 1975 and the book wasn't published until 1985, so I wonder about Bloch's recollection of the interview as well. I'm especially suspect of Lady Paget's memory since the 'multiple proposals' was the courtship story of David's brother Albert (future George VI) and Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (except that her family was more than acceptable). It sounds like David deliberately picked a woman he knew his father wouldn't approve (what a surprise! not.) beginning with his return from WWI.

I get the feeling World War One ducked him up

 

[desmirelle]

I think not fully understanding his position in the world is what screwed him up (along with the mumps). He liked the money, the women and the press, but hated responsibility. Before she accepted Albert, he told Lady Elizabeth Bowers-Lyon that she'd best marry him and go to "Buck House" (the palace). This was in the 1920s. I don't think he wanted to be King - that was actual work and, to his view, no fun. He wanted to party and be entertained and apparently be treated like a child by the women in his life.

 

[VVD0D95]

I think not fully understanding his position in the world is what screwed him up (along with the mumps). He liked the money, the women and the press, but hated responsibility. Before she accepted Albert, he told Lady Elizabeth Bowers-Lyon that she'd best marry him and go to "Buck House" (the palace). This was in the 1920s. I don't think he wanted to be King - that was actual work and, to his view, no fun. He wanted to party and be entertained and apparently be treated like a child by the women in his life.

Ah I see, I dowonder what would’ve happened if he’d turned out like daddy dearest in terms of discipline and

 

[desmirelle]

He was the anti-father. On purpose. To do what you've proposed, you're going to have to mend that fence (relationship betwixt father and son - G5 & David). To mend the fence, you may have to change G5's personality or his wife's (she was hell on the monarchy because she was a Serene Highness among Royal Highnesses before marriage. Her parents' marriage was either morganatic, or her grandparents' was (I'm too tired to look it up) - that's she why she could not understand David surrendering his birthright for "an adventuress" (Queen Mary's words) like Wallis.) Perhaps if David's mummy was warmer and got G5 to ease up, David wouldn't be so rebellious.

 

[VVD0D95]

He was the anti-father. On purpose. To do what you've proposed, you're going to have to mend that fence (relationship betwixt father and son - G5 & David). To mend the fence, you may have to change G5's personality or his wife's (she was hell on the monarchy because she was a Serene Highness among Royal Highnesses before marriage. Her parents' marriage was either morganatic, or her grandparents' was (I'm too tired to look it up) - that's she why she could not understand David surrendering his birthright for "an adventuress" (Queen Mary's words) like Wallis.) Perhaps if David's mummy was warmer and got G5 to ease up, David wouldn't be so rebellious.

Hmm this is very true