Derek Pullem
Donor
IOTL. ITTL the Sherman is a cheap mass produced American tank that is a bit meh compared to the Victor. Kind of tank that used as a chassis for other AFV. And Woolwich wants their gun rather than Vickers
Woolich didn't have a finished gun to test with (IIRC), so Vickers came up with their own. I'm sure a 17-pounder mounting can be developed later on, if it proves necessary.IOTL. ITTL the Sherman is a cheap mass produced American tank that is a bit meh compared to the Victor. Kind of tank that used as a chassis for other AFV. And Woolwich wants their gun rather than Vickers
One correction (but it's understandable because that fact is very obscure): the TOG 2 actually carried the 3.7" 28 pounder gun, a gun based on the 17pdr, but rebored to use 3.7" ammo. This has been confirmed by measuring the bore diameter of the gun of the surviving prototype found at Bovington.
Sadly, the museum keeps saying it's a 17pdr as it never bothered to measure the diameter itself.
So firstly, how old was that video? Secondly, how far away from the barrel was that person? Because there should be no reason why he couldn’t grab the tape measure from the other side as well to get an accurate measurement (plus the fact he couldn’t get the tape measure into the muzzle brake on the second trial for several attempts). Thirdly, had that person ever heard of a set of callipers (you know, a tool that is designed to accurately measure the width of something)Here is a video of the caliber being measured
I can imagine.I do wonder what Jerry is up to ITL in response. The success of British Armour in North Africa will have certainly not have gone unnoticed. Of course they are still ,as in OTL , learning some hard lessons about Soviet Tanks. How will the British improvements effect German development? A sane response might be prioritising Stug III development / production earlier. Or perhaps knowing that the Med Shipping isn't a priority you see some of that Fritz X technology going into attempts at anti tank missiles. Can't see it working on smaller bombs given the electronics of the day. Or maybe an always exciting Fuherdirective to prioritise the Maus sooner. The comedy value alone would be worth it. Plenty of room in that Turret Ring.
That was the only video I could find of the actual measuring. And yes it is quite bad. I think the quality is so bad you cant tell much about the dark interior of the barrel. But the actuallly important thing is the bore diameter, which is 94 mm. It is quite odd why The Tank Museum still says it is a 17 pdr gun.So firstly, how old was that video? Secondly, how far away from the barrel was that person? Because there should be no reason why he couldn’t grab the tape measure from the other side as well to get an accurate measurement (plus the fact he couldn’t get the tape measure into the muzzle brake on the second trial for several attempts). Thirdly, had that person ever heard of a set of callipers (you know, a tool that is designed to accurately measure the width of something)
Fourthly, that was one fouled barrel.
How did the 75mm HV actually compare in performance and technical characteristics to the 17-pdr? There seems to be a dearth of actual hard data at least online about it. Yes the 77mm in the Comet was based on it but was a different beast.The design and production teams had been looking at the problem they’d been given to solve. The new 17-pdr gun being developed was a large beast, but the War Office wanted it mounted in a tank turret. Because Vickers was developing their own High Velocity gun, the turret was to be developed for the next Nuffield designed cruiser tank.
The 75mm was a bit less powerful than than the 77mm HV. So it is a step down but is notably more powerful still than the US 75mm/ OQF 75mm.How did the 75mm HV actually compare in performance and technical characteristics to the 17-pdr? There seems to be a dearth of actual hard data at least online about it. Yes the 77mm in the Comet was based on it but was a different beast.
I think you can get some idea from looking at the Finnish AA gun based on the same weapon which also had an AP round. My recollection from the first thread was 17 pdr is better but you won't absolutely need it unless you are facing TigersHow did the 75mm HV actually compare in performance and technical characteristics to the 17-pdr? There seems to be a dearth of actual hard data at least online about it. Yes the 77mm in the Comet was based on it but was a different beast.
I'd assume it was similar to the Vickers Model 1931.How did the 75mm HV actually compare in performance and technical characteristics to the 17-pdr? There seems to be a dearth of actual hard data at least online about it. Yes the 77mm in the Comet was based on it but was a different beast.
Pretty sure the 3" 20cwt cartridge has been adopted for the 75mm ITTL as well because of it's shorter length over the AA gun's. At this point apart from using the US 75mm shells the Vickers 75mm HV should be pretty similar to the OTL guns.I'd assume it was similar to the Vickers Model 1931.
The Israelis fitted the larger/more powerful CN75mm into the small original M4 Turret by making a box to move the trunnions and the rest of the mount and mantlet forward, something US Tank designers were loathe to do, wanting to keep the trunnions well aft for balance reasonswould it help the Americans figure out getting their 76mm into a turret with a 69" ring do you think?
Counterwise, the British managed to squeeze a 17-pounder in, though the Americans rejected it as unfightable.The Israelis fitted the larger/more powerful CN75mm into the small original M4 Turret by making a box to move the trunnions and the rest of the mount and mantlet forward, something US Tank designers were loathe to do, wanting to keep the trunnions well aft for balance reasons
But it was 'OK' in the TD Branch.
The larger in volume T23/T25/T26 turret, no problem at all
The US also rejected the then new 76mm for same reasoning, and that was a smaller and lighter pieceCounterwise, the British managed to squeeze a 17-pounder in, though the Americans rejected it as unfightable.
Yep. However, we'll have so see if they can draw any conclusions from the Victor.The US also rejected the then new 76mm for same reasoning, and that was a smaller and lighter piece