Titanic sinks, but not on her maiden voyage.

[oudi14]

I don't think this has ever been done before. So suppose the maiden voyage is uneventful, and the Titanic becomes just another liner plying the North Atlantic? And for 2 years, all goes well, then in April 1914 has a fatal encounter with an iceberg, while making a westbound journey in the same location as in OTL? Some obvious butterflies; there are a different set of passengers onboard than in OTL. Also, Edward Smith is no longer captain, having retired in 1912. The ship still doesn't have enough lifeboats, but can the crew, having more time to adjust themselves to the ship, do a better job of filling the lifeboats, so that 1100+ are saved, instead of 700+. Can the butterflies make any appreciable difference to the start of WW 1? Suppose Archduke Franz Ferdinand is somehow on board, perhaps headed for a holiday in America? Or Gavro Princip decides to emigrate, and is a passenger in steerage.
On a personal note, I had a relative who was in New York in April 1912, and she had bought a ticket for the return trip on the Titanic, back to the UK. Needless to say, the White Star line gave her a refund, and she went on a different ship.

 

[Admiral Halsey]

If there are no ships nearby like OTL and the damage is just as severe then as many people die as before, you have the scramble to improve the safety of the ships but with WW1 just around the corner this would probably end up getting delayed until after the war. Ironically White Star's main rival Cunard is probably able to get the Mauritania and Lusitania back in service fast as they just need to add more lifeboats and top off the watertight compartments.(With the way they had the coal bunkers on them they were basically double hulled already and if either of them had hit the iceberg they would've easily survived.)

 

[Trotsky]

If Titanic sinks in the spring of 1914 she might be as remembered as the Empress of Ireland - remembered, but overshadowed immediately by the outbreak of war. Unless some of you think that a ripple in the North Atlantic trickles away the Sarajevo outrage.

Probably no big movie, though. Definitely not remembered as the morning the 20th century actually began.

 

[Resurgam]

[The Titanic is] definitely not remembered as the morning the 20th century actually began.

As a lifelong Titanic buff, I have to admit I've come to bristle at descriptors like that for the sinking. I think the 20th century really began with World War I. While the Titanic does leave an impact in terms of death toll, the people included among it, and revising safety procedures, it didn't really change the world as we know it. Yes, there's idea of it being the first big media event in the nascent age of mass media, the idea of man's hubris laid low, and how we can't technology, but a lot of that is attached much later as the ship becomes mythologized, and paled compared to what was coming to the battlefields of the Somme, Verdun and Passchendaele. There's also an argument for the various technologies developing in the early years of the century, like the airplane, but I really don't attach as much to one luxury liner sinking as others have.

Hell, if it weren't for Walter Lord writing A Night to Remember, the Titanic would have been all but forgotten after forty years of war, genocide, financial strife and threats of nuclear Armageddon. She was already on the verge of becoming the Empress of Ireland.

 

[MattII]

I think one of the first real events in the 20th century was Blériot's channel crossing in 1909, that brought home to millions that the world would no longer be limited to just sea and land travel. Remember, this was less than six years after the Wright Brothers' first flights at Kill Devil Hills (Kitty Hawk was 4 miles to the north), which was just over a quarter of a kilometre, and took longer than the 400m (athletics) record of the day.

 

[PMN1]

If Titanic sinks in the spring of 1914 she might be as remembered as the Empress of Ireland - remembered, but overshadowed immediately by the outbreak of war.

And turns up in a Clive Cussler book.

 

[Resurgam]

And turns up in a Clive Cussler book.

I doubt Raise the Titanic! would happen in a universe where the Titanic is just another shipwreck. Part of the reason why the novel sold so well is that involved finding, then raising, arguably the most famous ship in history.

 

[The Kiat]

I've pictured the Titanic (this will be after 4/14 mind you) being turned into a troop transport and torpedoed during the Great War.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Let's say she hits the iceberg but differently enough that she doesn't sink and makes it to New York for repairs and disembarking...

A little over a year later Franz Ferdinand and his wife book passage to America for a state visit, and to keep them out of the Emperor's hair. Princip is ordered to stowaway and assassinate the Archduke en route. Whilst onboard however, he has a change of heart and decides to simply immigrate to America.

While dangerously deciding to take a stroll on the ship to eat his final stolen sandwich however, Gavrilo is identified by one of the officers as a stowaway and the officer gives chase. Dropping his sandwich, Gavrilo rushes into a first class section of the ship where Franz Ferdinand is slightly lost and curious as to what the disturbance is coming from. The two meet and Gavrilo draws his gun...

The ship lays anchor in the mid Atlantic while Ferdinand is unsuccessfuly treated for his wounds, Princip is detained and questioned, and help is called. Passengers are urged to stay in their cabins for fear of other members of the plot being onboard. Their fear is well founded...

While Princip sits in chains on board the Titanic, a group of Serbian nationalists have their own separate mission: planting bombs in vulnerable parts of the ship to confound investigators and infuriate and terrify the Austrians (there happen to be other influential or high ranking AH and German people on board).

The bombs go off as the conspirators escape in a lifeboat. The Titanic takes all night the sink and the ship had been filled to capacity.

The Titanic Conspiracy changes the course of history forever and becomes one those events that utterly inundates the popular imagination for over a century.

Not bloody likely but it's a dramatic way to keep the Titanic famous.

 

[Captain Jack]

Why would Franz Ferdinand book passage to America on the Titanic? Surely he would use a warship of the Austro-Hungarian navy as he did in 1893? If he is making a state visit since he would be representing Austria-Hungary he should be transported aboard one of the nation's warships.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Why would Franz Ferdinand book passage to America on the Titanic? Surely he would use a warship of the Austro-Hungarian navy as he did in 1893? If he is making a state visit since he would be representing Austria-Hungary he should be transported aboard one of the nation's warships.

In times of war, yes Kings and Presidents would travel on warships for obvious safety reasons, but in peace time they would travel on liners, which is where the liners got much of their glamour. Some lines even printed their ships' passenger lists in the newspaper in order to gain greater publicity.

 

[RamscoopRaider]

I believe this could have a big butterfly, I can't remember the name, but a friend of both Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft was lost on the Titanic, if he lives he might be able to heal the rift between the men and change the result of the Presidential election that year

 

[Mike Stearns]

I believe this could have a big butterfly, I can't remember the name, but a friend of both Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft was lost on the Titanic, if he lives he might be able to heal the rift between the men and change the result of the Presidential election that year

Colonel Archibald Gracie. He was Taft's military aide.

 

[PandaRosa]

April 1912 would also then be known for the flight of Harriet Quimby, first aviatrix to fly the English Channel, a small but thoughtful butterfly regarding the history of women and flight.

 

[Binky the Clown]

If Olympic hadn't struck the HMS Hawke, then Titanic's voyage would've been sometime in late March. She would've been steaming back to Southampton on her second voyage on April 14th, so it's possible she hits the iceberg then. If not, perhaps she's sunk during the First World War while she's serving as Hospital Ship or a Troop Transport. Considering that she'd be loaded well above her maximum capacity in Wartime Service, we could see nearly 2,000 to 2,500 casualties in a situation like that!

I've pictured the Titanic (this will be after 4/14 mind you) being turned into a troop transport and torpedoed during the Great War.

It's definitely possible. I think it's likely White Star would've done what Cunard did with Lusitania and left one of their three big ships in service across the North Atlantic. Perhaps she does that for awhile, but is then pressed into Hospital Ship duty alongside Britannic? During the Gallipoli Campaign, more Hospital Ships were needed than Troop Transports.

 

[Mike Stearns]

If Olympic hadn't struck the HMS Hawke, then Titanic's voyage would've been sometime in late March. She would've been steaming back to Southampton on her second voyage on April 14th, so it's possible she hits the iceberg then. If not, perhaps she's sunk during the First World War while she's serving as Hospital Ship or a Troop Transport. Considering that she'd be loaded well above her maximum capacity in Wartime Service, we could see nearly 2,000 to 2,500 casualties in a situation like that!

Or if the Titanic had been struck the City of New York on her way down the Solent, her maiden voyage would have ended right then and there and everyone would have learn an important lesson about the handling characteristics of very big ships.

 

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

If Titanic sinks in the spring of 1914 she might be as remembered as the Empress of Ireland - remembered, but overshadowed immediately by the outbreak of war. Unless some of you think that a ripple in the North Atlantic trickles away the Sarajevo outrage.

Probably no big movie, though. Definitely not remembered as the morning the 20th century actually began.

I'm a hardliner on the butterfly question, if you ask my opinion. To paraphrase Abdul Hadi Pasha's criticism of this school of thought, I would think a "hyena coughing in Africa" could avert the Sarajevo killings! (If for no other reason that atoms and molecules would interact differently enough to create subtle changes. . .)

As far as "forseeable consequences" of a surviving Titanic, probably not much. What would they do for movies in the future if it weren't for that doomed ship?

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Why would Franz Ferdinand book passage to America on the Titanic? Surely he would use a warship of the Austro-Hungarian navy as he did in 1893? If he is making a state visit since he would be representing Austria-Hungary he should be transported aboard one of the nation's warships.

In times of war, yes Kings and Presidents would travel on warships for obvious safety reasons, but in peace time they would travel on liners, which is where the liners got much of their glamour. Some lines even printed their ships' passenger lists in the newspaper in order to gain greater publicity.

I never said my little drama of intrigue was plausible...

But yeah, I don't see a reason why an Archduke wouldn't be expected to travel in luxury. He isn't Emperor after all.

I believe this could have a big butterfly, I can't remember the name, but a friend of both Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft was lost on the Titanic, if he lives he might be able to heal the rift between the men and change the result of the Presidential election that year

Colonel Archibald Gracie. He was Taft's military aide.

Don't you mean Archibald Butt? I don't recall all the details but it's a hard name to forget...

April 1912 would also then be known for the flight of Harriet Quimby, first aviatrix to fly the English Channel, a small but thoughtful butterfly regarding the history of women and flight.

That's really cool. I never knew about that.

One thing I realized about my little scenario too is that Sophie lives. I wonder what she might have gone on to accomplish had she lived, and especially after being picked up off a lifeboat in my little tl's Titanic disaster...

 

[Binky the Clown]

Or if the Titanic had been struck the City of New York on her way down the Solent, her maiden voyage would have ended right then and there and everyone would have learn an important lesson about the handling characteristics of very big ships.

I completely forgot about the New York Incident. If that happened, White Star probably would've had a protracted legal battle with the Inman Line, similar to what took place with the Admiralty or the Furness Bermuda Line after Olympic collided with Fort Saint George. White Star would probably be irritated with Smith, since this would be the second Olympic-class liner under his command to collide with another ship.

 

[alexcoppo]

Titanic sinking was a real ASB event.

The time window for the disaster was restricted to (at most) the time it took for the Titanic to pass along the iceberg. If earlier or later, Titanic misses the iceberg.

An idea of the critical timespan is given by the time it took for the Titanic to surf its length: the ship was 269 m long and was cruising at about 21 kn (10.8 m/s), which gives us a delta-T of less then 25 seconds .

If at the last course change before the accident the officer relying the order had hesitated only for a second, the displacement at meeting time would have been much larger than the ship and iceberg dimensions.

Sometimes, you do not meet a bat but an Quetzalcoatlus.