So I have been reading many threads about if Nicholas II died in 1891 and if his brother, George Alexandrovich, survived his illness and thus became Tsar after AIII in 1894. Would George have been able to save Russia from the revolution? I read that he was the most intelligent and outgoing of Alexander and Maria's (Dagmar) children. Surely, he would have been reasonable enough to know that Russia wouldn't survive off an autocratic rule for long,
Otsu Incident
 
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Surely, he would have been reasonable enough to know that Russia wouldn't survive off an autocratic rule for long,
why wouldn't it? Despite Revolutionary propaganda that indicated otherwise, Russia was being touted in the reign of Nikolai II as "if the Russian state continues to grow at this rate, it'll be the leading economy in the world by 1950". And that was before the Duma.

The strikes and riots that they had in Russia were usually (encouraged by the revolutionaries) more the havoc they created than because they actually had a list of demands about why they were striking. Also, most of the reason that Nikolai II kept changing ministers as he did was because the ministers he'd appoint would wind up murdered or attacked by the opposition the minute their policies actually seemed to be working, the attacks led some to resign, and still others to even refuse to accept the offer of office.

TBH, having a decisive leader in charge (not one who keeps second guessing himself) can do wonders (look at what Alex III pulled off). And he wasn't a liberal or a fan of a duma
 
So I have been reading many threads about if Nicholas II died in 1891 and if his brother, George Alexandrovich, survived his illness and thus became Tsar after AIII in 1894. Would George have been able to save Russia from the revolution? I read that he was the most intelligent and outgoing of Alexander and Maria's children. Surely, he would have been reasonable enough to know that Russia wouldn't survive off an autocratic rule for long,
Otsu Incident
Wait, who is Maria? Alexander III's wife was Dagmar of Denmark. Perhps your have confused him with his father, Alexander II, whose wife was Marie of Hesse and by Rhine.
 
When Dagmar married Alexander III in 1866, she was then known in Russia as Maria Feodorovna or (Minnie to the family). Plus they didn't call AII's mother, Alexandra Feodorovna by her birth name Charlotte.
 
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Well, apart from anything else, he's probably not marrying Alexandra, which means the whole hemophilia debacle with Rasputin is avoided.
 
Do you know of George's political views? Was he more liberal or conservative?
How about neither? Anyway, example of his liberal grandfather was terrible in most areas while his conservative father was successful in more than one. Just being “somebody” in a changed environment is pretty much meaningless on itself: the Provisional Government was liberal and a complete disaster. So was a conservative NII (who nonetheless conducted quite a few liberal reforms).

He was not involved in any political activities based on which one can make any meaningful judgement. The relevant question is would he be able to react to the changing political situation in Russia better than his brother but, again, there is no track record allowing to make such a judgement. Even a reputation of the most intelligent of AIIIs sons means nothing: NIIs main problem was not a low IQ but a weak character. What can be said about George in this area? AFAIK, nothing.
 
How about neither? Anyway, example of his liberal grandfather was terrible in most areas while his conservative father was successful in more than one. Just being “somebody” in a changed environment is pretty much meaningless on itself: the Provisional Government was liberal and a complete disaster. So was a conservative NII (who nonetheless conducted quite a few liberal reforms).

He was not involved in any political activities based on which one can make any meaningful judgement. The relevant question is would he be able to react to the changing political situation in Russia better than his brother but, again, there is no track record allowing to make such a judgement. Even a reputation of the most intelligent of AIIIs sons means nothing: NIIs main problem was not a low IQ but a weak character. What can be said about George in this area? AFAIK, nothing.
Yeah, it is also kinda hard to tell much about George as a person since he died in 1899. All, I know is that he was outgoing and intelligent, but that doesn't help much in terms of decision-making and enforcing policies.
 
why wouldn't it? Despite Revolutionary propaganda that indicated otherwise, Russia was being touted in the reign of Nikolai II as "if the Russian state continues to grow at this rate, it'll be the leading economy in the world by 1950". And that was before the Duma.

The strikes and riots that they had in Russia were usually (encouraged by the revolutionaries) more the havoc they created than because they actually had a list of demands about why they were striking.
The strikes were not unique for RE: they were happening all over the industrialized world and their strategic results in Russia were not too different from those elsewhere: slowly but steadily the comprehensive labor laws had been adopted and the workers had been gaining in compensation and working conditions.

Also, most of the reason that Nikolai II kept changing ministers as he did was because the ministers he'd appoint would wind up murdered or attacked by the opposition the minute their policies actually seemed to be working, the attacks led some to resign, and still others to even refuse to accept the offer of office.
TBH, having a decisive leader in charge (not one who keeps second guessing himself) can do wonders (look at what Alex III pulled off). And he wasn't a liberal or a fan of a duma
Agree. Not that AIII was an ideal and did not make mistakes but he had a reasonable “line” while his predecessor and successor had been caving to the pressure and kept changing their course time and again. As Alexander Mikhailovich remarked, NII had to be either a strictly absolute monarch or a full-scale constitutional one. Being a little big pregnant was not working.
 
Yeah, it is also kinda hard to tell much about George as a person since he died in 1899. All, I know is that he was outgoing and intelligent, but that doesn't help much in terms of decision-making and enforcing policies.
It does not help at all. In professional area he was a naval officer of a low rank so there was not too much of a decision making there.
 
So is Russia doomed either way because if George were to follow in the footsteps of his father, it probably won't end well. Also, it is unlikely he would be a supporter of a full-blown constitutional monarchy, that would upset the Russian nobles and his family.
 
At the very least, Nicky dying has butterfly effects on the Russo-Japanese War in 1905 and the resultant Revolution of 1905, which has further knock-on effects towards the final revolution. It probably won't cause an earlier Russo-Japanese War (it was a deranged individual and Japan would've apologized as they did OTL, just more intensely), but this is still in the early stages of the competition for influence over continental NE Asia (Manchuria and Korea) and this might well turn Russia's full attention to the region earlier, rather than have them wait until after the First Sino-Japanese War (they didn't really expand their influence or holdings past Outer Manchuria until then). Japan's in no position to fight Russia yet (they haven't cut their teeth beating the Qing yet, so Japanese policy makers are likely to back down to Russian pressure as OTL).

If Russia pushes into further earlier, they might well gain paramount influence over Korea as well as Manchuria (Japanese influence intensified after the Sino-Japanese War, after all), which prevents Japan from having a foothold on the continent and forces Japanese policy makers to pursue a different strategy (Korean annexation wasn't a unanimous decision even in 1905. Japanese politicians were still vacillating between keeping it as a friendly buffer and a full subject in the 1890s, IIRC). They might support Korean independence movements, but it might be harder for Japan to occupy Korea during a war with Russia if Russia stations troops and fortifies the peninsula, which in turn makes it harder for Japan to blitz towards the Trans-Siberian Railway. The Japanese can't sustain a long war, even less so than OTL since they'll be more restricted in their influence and expansion.

All this makes it less likely for Russia to enter the 20th century with quite as much civil unrest, though it might also prevent Russia from making reforms in advance of a large-scale European conflict since they won't be embarrassed militarily.
 
why wouldn't it? Despite Revolutionary propaganda that indicated otherwise, Russia was being touted in the reign of Nikolai II as "if the Russian state continues to grow at this rate, it'll be the leading economy in the world by 1950". And that was before the Duma.
Does that actually matter though if the only people profitting from this is a very small group of industrialists and noblemen? Economic growth is not a guarantee of political stability if you create a radicalized underclass in the process. Nikolai II's solution to this problem was to terrorize his subjects into obedience, but this particular brand of autocracy is bound to fail the instance the autocrat no longer has the power to go through on his threats. So I would argue that his particular brand of autocracy was doomed.

This prediction basically turned out right anyway, although Russia did end up eclipsed by the United States, which to me hints that the Tsar had very little to do with it.
 
When Dagmar married Alexander III in 1866, she was then known in Russia as Maria Feodorovna or (Minnie to the family). Plus they didn't call AII's mother, Alexandra Feodorovna by her birth name Charlotte.
historians don't, and officially they weren't, but within the family AIUI it was more a case-by-case scenario. The fact that there were three grand duchesses Maria (Feodorovna, Vladimirovna and Alex III's sister, Alexandrovna) probably made it that people did still call her Minnie or Dagmar in private. For Alexandra we know that Nikolai I used to call her by her birth name and "Mouffy". And Elena Pavlovna, Grand Duchess Mikhail, was apparently always referred to as "Lottchen" or "Tante Lottchen" (by Nikolai's daughters) not "Tante Lenschen" or "Aunt Helen"
 
Do we know if George was as intensely antisemitic as his brother was?
Im not expecting George to be especially friendly or nice to jews, but maybe he'd crack down on the Black Hundreds since spontaneous deadly pogroms that ravage many towns and cities doesn't exactly scream "law and order"
 
Does that actually matter though if the only people profitting from this is a very small group of industrialists and noblemen?

Really? A qualified industrial worker, on average, had been getting salary comparable to one of an officer of lieutenant/captain rank with much lesser expenses. Term “noblemen” by the time of NII lost meaning because most of them lost their estates and worked for living (admittedly, not as the manual labor force).

Economic growth is not a guarantee of political stability if you create a radicalized underclass in the process.

“Underclass” in this context was lumpen, not the “proletariat” because proletariat was mostly limiting itself to the economic issues, was not widely supportive of the revolutionaries and was only marginally involved in Bolsheviks’ coup and its position during the RCW was rather ambivalent. Instability had been caused predominantly by WWI.

Nikolai II's solution to this problem was to terrorize his subjects into obedience,

You are confused: this was communists’ solution. Sadly, it worked for over 7 decades. Tsarist regime did not have tools adequate for proper terrorizing.

but this particular brand of autocracy is bound to fail the instance the autocrat no longer has the power to go through on his threats.

Can you be more specific about nature of these alleged “threats”?

So I would argue that his particular brand of autocracy was doomed.
Yeah, sure: as I said, it took seven decades for “this particular brand of autocracy” to fail but it had little to do with OTL Russian monarchy.

This prediction basically turned out right anyway, although Russia did end up eclipsed by the United States, which to me hints that the Tsar had very little to do with it.
Taking into an account that RE never was a world-dominating power, this statement about eclipsing, while true, is absolutely irrelevant. The “eclipsed” one was British Empire and Tsar definitely had little to do with it. 😂
 
Do we know if George was as intensely antisemitic as his brother was?

We don’t know, except that antisemitism was prevailing throughout the whole society including the regions in which the Jews had been absent in any noticeable numbers.

Im not expecting George to be especially friendly or nice to jews, but maybe he'd crack down on the Black Hundreds since spontaneous deadly pogroms that ravage many towns and cities doesn't exactly scream "law and order"
Most (not all) of the pogroms had nothing to do with the “Black Hundreds” and were not even organized. Quite often they were spontaneous and conducted by the peasants and lumpen. Pleve, indeed, was approving and even inciting them but they were continued after his death all the way to the RCW when they were endemic on Ukraine (by which time NII was not around and can’t be blamed).
Actually, at least after Pleve assassination the authorities had been taking measures but they were “reactive” rather than “proactive”.
 
You are confused: this was communists’ solution. Sadly, it worked for over 7 decades. Tsarist regime did not have tools adequate for proper terrorizing.
Can you be more specific about nature of these alleged “threats”?

The Tsarist regime was a brutal military autocracy with a long history of political violence, anti-semitism and ultra-nationalism, on top of being a run of the mill 19th century European imperialist power. Dissenters who refused to accept the supposedly divine authority of the Tsar were tortured and then murdered by the Russian state. Religious and ethnic minorities were frequently subjected to massacres and deportations.

A qualified industrial worker, on average, had been getting salary comparable to one of an officer of lieutenant/captain rank with much lesser expenses.
Citation needed.

The Russian revolution did not happen because the Russians were bored and wanted to have a horrendously destructive civil war to pass the time. It was the direct result of decades of misrule by both Nikolai and his father, and the carnage they caused in trying to uphold an outmoded and unjust political system.
 
So is Russia doomed either way because if George were to follow in the footsteps of his father, it probably won't end well. Also, it is unlikely he would be a supporter of a full-blown constitutional monarchy, that would upset the Russian nobles and his family.

Yeah, sure: as I said, it took seven decades for “this particular brand of autocracy” to fail but it had little to do with OTL Russian monarchy.
again, why is Russia being conservative (and not a constitutional monarchy) equal disaster? As pointed out, Alexander I & II for all their liberalism, were disasters as rulers. Nikolai I and Alex III had got more than a bit right in their reigns (despite being conservatives). Even Nikolai's record isn't all bad, but it isn't helped by his, as @alexmilman said: "little bit pregnant" stance. Germany was certainly scared enough of a conservative Russia being successful - why they sent Lenin back to disrupt the equilibrium - but I think if they'd known what chaos they were unleashing there, it would not have happened.

It probably won't cause an earlier Russo-Japanese War (it was a deranged individual and Japan would've apologized as they did OTL, just more intensely), but this is still in the early stages of the competition for influence over continental NE Asia (Manchuria and Korea) and this might well turn Russia's full attention to the region earlier, rather than have them wait until after the First Sino-Japanese War (they didn't really expand their influence or holdings past Outer Manchuria until then). Japan's in no position to fight Russia yet (they haven't cut their teeth beating the Qing yet, so Japanese policy makers are likely to back down to Russian pressure as OTL).
AIUI, Nikolai didn't want the Russo-Japanese War (or World War I, he's pretty much responsible for calming the waters between the Austrians and the Serbs so that the Serbs walked back most of their demands). But he was pressured into both. The RJW by forces at home, WWI by outside factors.

though it might also prevent Russia from making reforms in advance of a large-scale European conflict since they won't be embarrassed militarily.
again. AIUI, Russia was in the midst of military reforms from the get-go of Nikolai's reign. The navy was neglected, yes, but I would lay the blame at Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich's door there, rather than Nikolai's.

Not defending Nikolai but he really does get the blame for a lot of stuff that he really had no role in. Good news is that Georg - as a naval junior officer - likely knows Alexei is unfit for command and removes him at the start of his reign (not sure if Nikolai didn't know how incompetent Alexei was or just didn't have the courage to remove him until he couldn't)

Dissenters who refused to accept the supposedly divine authority of the Tsar were tortured and then murdered by the Russian state.
uh-huh. And what about the people that Nicky appointed that the radicals murdered when their policies started actually benefitting the state?
long history of political violence, anti-semitism

As for anti-semitism, while I do not minimalize it by any means, the French Third Republic's whole anti-semitic schtick wasn't really much better. And one could argue that France between 1789 and 1900 was really just a merry-go-round of coups and countercoups- the Terror, the Vendée, the Terreur Blanche, both Paris Communes (the 1870 one and the lesser known one in the French Revolution), the attempted coup of Simon/Broglie, the attempted coup of Boulanger, Vaillant's bombing of the Assemblee in 1893, the Dreyfuss Affair in 1894, Zola's allegation of an anti-semitic coup in J'Accuse...(not counting the successful coups like the Brumaire of Napoléon or his nephew, the July Monarchy- essentially it was a coup in all but name- etc etc). Now, France isn't Russia, but it just goes to show that you can't really argue that it's either "unique" in political violence or anti-semitism.

It was the direct result of decades of misrule by both Nikolai and his father, and the carnage they caused in trying to uphold an outmoded and unjust political system.
misrule is a good joke for when records (published under the failing Soviet Union and shortly after in the 1980s/1990s) show that prices for stuff under Alexander III and Nikolai II (war aside) where actually better than under the Soviets. Also, in one report, an inventory is taken of a "poor" person's house in 1899 (or some other year in their reigns) and then someone of a commeasurate standard of living at the time of the study. The findings show that poor person under the czars would've been deemed as "horribly bourgeois" and suspected of being a "corrupt Westerner" by comparison. Because the study's next table shows a comparison of prices between stuff in Russia (coffee, clothes, food, whatever) under Nikolai II with prices charged for equivalent stuffs abroad (Lyons and Manchester vs Novgorod or Yaroslavl rather than London/Paris/Moscow). And guess what? Not only were you able to get "luxuries" like chocolate and coffee in Yaroslavl, but it was cheaper to buy a pound of coffee in Russia than what it was in Manchester. Indicating that the so-called "misrule" was sure as hell having a better standard of living (or at least, comparable) than republican France or constitutional England

While I tend to view it with a generous helping of salt, the criterion of disbelief does count: why on earth would a Russian historian under the Soviet regime (IDK why I think it was in 1987) risk his neck to point out how much better things were, not under Lenin or Stalin, but under the bogeyman Alexander III/Nikolai II.
 
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