IOTL she died twelve years before him, so he remarried to Germaine of Foix in an attempt to sire a legitimate son to keep Philip "the handsome" of Burgundy's hands off of Aragon, this failed and his oldest surviving daughter with Isabella - Juana "la loca" - succeeded to the thrones of both Castile and Aragon. So, what if Isabella lived longer than Ferdinand (who still dies in 1516, like IOTL), and thus he is unable to remarry? For one, Katherine, their youngest daughter, would still be seen as a valuable marriage prize after the death of her first husband Arthur. And Joanna won't be queen of Castile for a little while yet.
WI: Isabella of Castile outlives Ferdinand of Aragon.
- Thread starter ordinarylittleme
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Well, Katherine would likely marry Henry around 1506 thus giving her 3 more years to have an heir. With 3 fewer years of struggle she might also become less inclined to religious fasts, which might also increase the odds of her carrying a child to term. All in all we might see a son born to them, which essentially butterflies all English history afterwards.
As for Joanna and Philip, they also have more years together, and with Joanna’s fertility otl, a couple more kids is deffo likely. Not sure what happens to Germaine, but a marriage to a high ranking southern French lord might be likely
As for Joanna and Philip, they also have more years together, and with Joanna’s fertility otl, a couple more kids is deffo likely. Not sure what happens to Germaine, but a marriage to a high ranking southern French lord might be likely
Why will Joanna and Philip get more time together? Isabella's life being lengthened has nothing to do with Philip's lifespan...Germaine could marry, idk, Ferdinand, Duke of Calabria? Why would Katherine marry Henry in 1506 though, Arthur died in 1502?
He was? I thought he died of typhoid fever? But if Philip was poisoned, well, ITTL he won't be then. And he'll be king of Aragon instead. Do we think Isabella will hand over power willingly, instead of fighting for regency?
Philip has been thought to either have died of a disease he caught in Spain or (just as likely imo) due to him being poisoned by Ferdinand. Without Philip ruling in Spain he will neither be in Spain to catch the disease or be enough of a thorn in Ferdinand's eye yet to have him poison him. As for why Katherine marries Henry in 1506 and not 1502, that is simply because Henry was only 11, and while they could technically be married in 1502, it's more likely that they will once he's mature enough (at around 15), which would be in 1506
Ah I see. Thank you for answering. Anyway, do we think Katherine can bear a healthy son for Henry ITTL? Because if not, it's just a rehash of our own TL...
If Isabella lives Catherine can marry Henry as early as 1505. It could also mean that Charles is disinherited in favour of his younger brother Ferdinand.
Ferdinand Sr tried this in OTL after he failed to have a son by Germaine, in a last effort to keep Spain independent.
I think the two of them together could get Ferdinand Jr acknowledged as Prince of Asturias and Girona before their respective deaths.
Ferdinand Sr tried this in OTL after he failed to have a son by Germaine, in a last effort to keep Spain independent.
I think the two of them together could get Ferdinand Jr acknowledged as Prince of Asturias and Girona before their respective deaths.
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Katherine bearing an earlier Henry, Duke of Cornwall will be interesting
Well, if Isabella outlives Fernando, Juana almost definitely won't be imprisoned. So they won't have to have Charles or Fernando Jr named as Prince of Asturias in the first place, since Juana will still be Princess of Asturias.
Because part of the reason (and, IMHO, most of the reason) that Juana was imprisoned in the first place is because Fernando (and Philip, before his death) wanted to rule in Castile in her stead post-Isabella's death. Juana almost certainly wasn't as mad or unable to rule as she's popularly depicted, and a lot of the claims about her mental health/madness are now disputed by historians; while she probably was mentally ill, it's likely that she just suffered from depression, and that doesn't make her unable to rule. Above everything else, Fernando and Philip were looking out for their own interests, which is proven by the fact that at different points, both of them acknowledged Juana's fitness to rule, thinking that it was the most strategic thing to do (Fernando did it when the nobility in Castile rejected him in favor of Juana, and Philip did it when Fernando tried to assert his right to rule in Castile, which would have had Fernando in control instead of him). Fernando was particularly nasty about keeping control of Castile–before Juana was even imprisoned, he minted coins that made it seem like he and Juana were joint-rulers in Castile, rather than Juana ruling by herself and in her own right, and IIRC, he and Philip feuded repeatedly over who would rule in Castile. Before the prospect of Juana being imprisoned even happened, they were going behind her back trying to deprive her of the throne. Fernando took advantage of the unrest that happened in Castile after Philip's death (including an outbreak of illness in Castile that coincidentally faded when he arrived back in the country, something that was superstitiously taken as a sign of favor in the 16th century) to force Juana to hand over control of Castile and Leon to him. And even after that happened, Juana made it clear that Fernando was taking power from her against her will.
And in addition to that, IIRC, Isabella made Fernando swear that he wouldn't try and deprive Juana of her throne when she was on her deathbed, along with his promise to never remarry (a promise that he also ended up breaking). I could be wrong about that, but there definitely was a part of Isabella's will that specified that Fernando would only take power in Castile if Juana was unable to rule, and that he would only be able to rule until Charles V came of age (though this was more due to her dislike of Philip of Burgundy than any concerns of Juana's mental health). Fernando definitely wouldn't have been able to convince Isabella that Juana was mad and needed to be imprisoned because if Isabella were alive, Fernando wouldn't have tried anything. And Philip of Burgundy, who is thought by some historians to have been the one who began spreading the rumors that Juana was mad in the first place (either him or Fernando), wouldn't have been able to convince Isabella that Juana was mad, either.
TL;DR: if Isabella outlives Fernando, then the chain of events that led to Juana being deprived of her throne and imprisoned in the first place will never happen. Juana ends up reigning in her own right.
Ah I see. So, Philip and Juana of Aragon? He can be king consort/jure uxoris but she holds the reins of power? I wonder if she'll create a proto-Protestant reformation...
If Germaine is not married before 1506 she could be married to Sigismund of Poland (whose older brother John Albert was candidate for her husband and whose other brother Vladislaus was married to Germaine's cousin).
That would be interesting, but wouldn't it just be a bit of a waste of an alliance?
Jagiellons and Valois looked for alliance at the time and would John Albert of Poland live little longer Germaine would marry him.
Do we think they will have children or will they end up a bit like Germaine and Ferdinand IOTL?