WI John and Joe Junior both died in WW2?

I think he could easily have died when PT 109 was sunk. I am guessing that Joe Kennedy senior might have wanted Bobby to seek high office. He would barely have been legally eligable for the House in 1946 and for the Presidency in 1960.

So what happens in 1960?
 
Bobby did not have the charisma, particularly in 1960.

Since Jack did not do a lot in the 1950s, it seems plausible the butterflies would not be too large. Therefore, I would suggest the 1960 candidates would be similar to those IOTL. Since LBJ was the runner-up in the nomination, it seems most likely he would have been the candidate. An LBJ-Nixon race seems particularly interesting. Given LBJ's ruthlessness, it seems plausible that he would win. It seems likely Johnson would pick up a few Southern States (e.g. TN, VA, and MS (which had "unpledged electors on the ballot). Unless, he loses big Northeastern states, LBJ would win easily. LBJ becoming President in 1960 creates some very interesting possibilities. I would say it is almost certain the Soviets are less aggressive (e.g. no Cuban Missile crisis, perhaps no Berlin wall). The truly interesting question becomes, would LBJ pursue his Great Society and Civil Rights agenda with the same vigor he did IOTL. I think the answer is yes on the first and probably on the second.

A more interesting question is whether the lack of JFK would allow another candidate (such as Humphrey) who never really took off IOTL to do well enough in the primaries to win on a second or third ballot as the alternative to the rather crude wheeler-dealer Johnson. My intuition is Humphrey loses the entire South (either to Nixon or to an unpledged slate) and probably Illinois, resulting in Nixon in 1960.
 
Actually, it occurs to me that if JFK dies in the sinking of PT-109 (in 1943), Joe Jr likely survives (1944). According to what I have read, he volunteered for the wildly dangerous mission (in which he was killed) largely to be a bigger hero than Jack. If Jack is dead, he has all the political capital he needs does not volunteer, runs for Congress in 1946 and likely runs for President in 1960. A JPK Presidency is actually a rather disturbing prospect as he had apparently stronger Nazi sympathies than his brother.
 

marktaha

Banned
I think Nixon would have beaten any Democrat bar JFK. Without Joe and Jack-Bobby becomes Congressman in early or mid 50s, Senator in 1958 or 1960, still assassinated 1968.
 
Didn’t Joe Sr. actually plan to have Joe Jr. run for President, and viewed Jack as an “also ran” when Joe Jr. died?

Another POD could be that Jack/PT109 have no incident, and end the war without any fanfare.

ric350
 
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Didn’t Joe Sr. actually plan to have Joe Jr. run for President, and viewed Jack as an “also ran” when Joe Jr. died?

Another POD could be that Jack/PT109 have no incident, and end the war without any fanfare.

ric350
The plan was Joe Jr would become the first Catholic President and JFK would be the "scholar". Hence why the old man paid to have JFKs Harvard Thesis published as a book.
 
I think Nixon would have beaten any Democrat bar JFK. Without Joe and Jack-Bobby becomes Congressman in early or mid 50s, Senator in 1958 or 1960, still assassinated 1968.
What is your basis for saying Nixon would have won against any Democrat? 3 consecutive election victories are remarkably rare in US history. Also JFK had significant baggage (being Catholic, being young) that LBJ would not have had. Unless you want to argue that Nixon would carry all the states he did, plus NY, the nubmers don't work.
 
Dems had five straight 1932-48.
I did not say it never happened, I said remarkably rare. That said, what is your basis for saying Nixon would have beaten any other Democrat. I am certainly not an expert in this time period, but Johnson was an exceptionally skilled politician and it strikes me he was liberal enough to keep NY and perhaps Southern enough to keep the South.
 
I think Nixon would have beaten any Democrat bar JFK. Without Joe and Jack-Bobby becomes Congressman in early or mid 50s, Senator in 1958 or 1960, still assassinated 1968.

Would he though? JFK not being President would unleash a lot of butterflies. For starters, RFK was known as "Ruthless Robert" in the 1950s and did not become a compelling public speaker until his 1964 Senate run (where his success was due in large measure to public sympathy following the JFK assassination). Moreover, without seeing how Lee Harvey Oswald became infamous by killing JFK would Sirhan Sirhan try to kill RFK in this ATL?
 
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