WI: OJ Simpson Trial Goes Differently: Guilty or Not?

[Paul V McNutt]

I would like the five people who said OJ didn't do it to please explain why they think that.

 

[oudi14]

Chapman and Sirhan are nobodies and losers. I could imagine around 2030, when OJ is in his 80s, and if Fred Goldman is no longer with us, the Parole Board deciding to let him out to die a free man. I could be wrong. In OTL, I hope he stays locked up for that long. Not that he really deserved any jail time for what happened in Vegas, as far as I am concerned, he's on the inside for the 2 murders. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

Manson is mentally ill, pretty clearly. That's why he'll never be paroled. I doubt Simpson would be paroled either, because of the high profile nature of the crime (see also: Chapman, Sirhan).

 

[Lemon flavoured]

Chapman and Sirhan are nobodies and losers. I could imagine around 2030, when OJ is in his 80s, and if Fred Goldman is no longer with us, the Parole Board deciding to let him out to die a free man. I could be wrong. In OTL, I hope he stays locked up for that long. Not that he really deserved any jail time for what happened in Vegas, as far as I am concerned, he's on the inside for the 2 murders. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

My point was that Sirhan and Chapman wont be paroled because of who they killed. If instead of Robert Kennedy and John Lennon theyd have killed some random state level politician and a locally famous lounge singer theyd be out by how.

 

[oudi14]

Certainly true in the case of Sirhan. I doubt that Yoko Ono has much pull with the NY Parole Board. Admittedly, Lennon's fame might count for something.

My point was that Sirhan and Chapman wont be paroled because of who they killed. If instead of Robert Kennedy and John Lennon theyd have killed some random state level politician and a locally famous lounge singer theyd be out by how.

 

[GTStinger]

I think a "passive conspiracy" though the entire process was the fear of another Watts/Rodney King style riot.
Judge, jurors, people that appointed the prosecutors....they all had the concern in the back of their mind that the city would burn if OJ were convicted. On a possibility subconscious level, I don't think that many people wanted a conviction.
Machiavellian logic that one free criminal was better than a week or two of chaos.

 

[Paul V McNutt]

If there had been a competent prosecution and the public had heard about OJ's passport,disguise, $8000 and watched the police statement there would have been no riots.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

They said early on that they were not going to ask for the death penalty. Which was a mistake. If you eliminate jurors who are opposed to the death penalty, you have a whiter moe male jury that is more sympathetic to the proscution.

This is NOT a good thing ...

If anything, it's a condemnation of the Death Penalty, itself ...

At the VERY LEAST, it's an argument for separate, Penalty and Culpability Phases!

 

[usertron2020]

The biggest damage Judge Ito may have done was not allowing a statement OJ made into evidence. A Deputy Sherif who supervised a visitation area reported that while talking to Rosie Greer, who as a minister was counseling O J, slammed down the phone, they were talking through phones separated by a glass wall, and shouted an incriminating statement. When the hearing was held, he did not say what O J said. The law was clear. if during a private conversation you say something someone who is not eavesdropping can hear, you have given up your right of privacy. Yet Ito ruled that while OJ had waived his right of privacy, he had an expectation of privacy. That defies logic. If you are shouting and there is a Deputy Sheriff ten feet away, you should have no expectation of privacy.

IDK. As someone who is no friend of OJ, I can say that this just skirts the edge of what is considered religious counseling for a defendant. It may recognize yet another screw up by the State that OJ and Greer were not put in a room where sound was muffled, which often is available in a jail, the same as for lawyers. Then again, after that meeting, Greer refused to have anything to do with OJ.

The Deputy Sheriff later told a tabloid for a $ 10,000 fee that OJ said I didn't mean to do it. If that is true, the tabloid and the fee cast doubt, and he had testified to that in court.

The Defense could also argue that the Deputy Sheriff's testimony had mercenary motives and therefore should be inadmissible. They'd be right.

That could have meant a guilty verdict or at least a hung jury. If there was a hung jury, the prosecutors could have talked to jurors and discovered their mistakes. The best result would be the second OJ trail is delayed until after the OJ lawsuit. The prosecutors could have watched the excellent lawyering of the lawsuit attorneys and learned.

A guilty verdict was never in the cards. Not with the three jurors who perjured themselves on their testimony to give a fair judgement of the case.

Chapman and Sirhan are nobodies and losers. I could imagine around 2030, when OJ is in his 80s, and if Fred Goldman is no longer with us, the Parole Board deciding to let him out to die a free man. I could be wrong. In OTL, I hope he stays locked up for that long. Not that he really deserved any jail time for what happened in Vegas, as far as I am concerned, he's on the inside for the 2 murders. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

NO JAIL TIME for armed robbery and kidnapping in which he was the leader and organizer? His motive for taking the sports memorabilia was twofold: To help maintain his lavish Florida lifestyle (his untouchable NFL pension and Florida properties weren't enough I guess), and to keep the Goldman Family from getting the proceeds from said memorabilia. OJ wasn't permitted to so much as sign his name to a football and selling it without having to give the $$$ to Fred Goldman.

Again, jock that he was, I'm sure he simply didn't think through the natural consequences of his actions. In Nevada, he wouldn't have the $$$ for Dream Team Two (1), wouldn't face an incompetent team of prosecutors, and DID face a judge determined NOT to be seen as the most incompetent judge in America since...well, Lance Ito.

1) There was also the problem that any prospective members of a "Dream Team Two" would have been well aware of what happened to the members of Dream Team One: For the most part, they never worked a criminal case for the rest of their lives, other than as outside advisors. The merest whiff of their involvement in a criminal case could cause local phone lines, radio waves, and internet chatter to burn with indignation and vows to convict anyone they had as clients.

This happened in the case of a member of the Carolina Panthers who got into trouble and called in Johnny Cochrane. Cochrane had barely arrived instate before the whirlwind of protests arose in local sports news radio stations of callers stating that "...if Cochrane's defending him, then the guy MUST be guilty, and I'll never vote to acquit!" Johnny quickly left, swearing that he had only made himself available as an advisor but would depart since his presence had made the case too controversial for the defendant. He spent the rest of his life practicing civil law.

So if you were a four star level criminal defense attorney in Nevada, maybe you DIDN'T want to make a name for yourself defending OJ.

If there had been a competent prosecution and the public had heard about OJ's passport,disguise, $8000 and watched the police statement there would have been no riots.

The public did. And yes, there would have been no riots. Fuhrman might have to move to some place like North Dakota, but no riots. Because there's no sense of injustice. If there's no Bronco Chase, and all that damning evidence hadn't been found (somehow the Bronco and socks go the way of the knife and shoes), then perhaps yes, riots.

I remember a comedy sketch done on Mad TV in which an African-American comic actor (Founding Member Phil LaMarr) did a "lecture" (to a supposedly 100% African-American audience) of the "Twenty Things That Scare White People". The only ones I remember are numbers 1, 2, & 10.

#10 was "Hockey". The guy did a double-take and said "HOCKEY!? Sorry folks, that was supposed to be on the list of things that scared Black People"

#2 was "Riots!"

#1 was "NEXT years Riots!"

Yeah, pretty much. And LaMarr earnestly begged the viewers to "...please stop trashing your OWN neighborhoods and get some buses to go to the White neighborhoods?"

 

[Paul V McNutt]

A guilty verdict was never in the cards. Not with the three jurors who perjured themselves on their testimony to give a fair judgement of the case.

If the jury knew the facts, there would have been a guilty verdict. Minority dominated juries in Downtown Los Angeles frequently convict Black Men.

 

[usertron2020]

A guilty verdict was never in the cards. Not with the three jurors who perjured themselves on their testimony to give a fair judgement of the case.

If the jury knew the facts, there would have been a guilty verdict. Minority dominated juries in Downtown Los Angeles frequently convict Black Men.

Not for Black Celebrities playing the Race Card. And playing it over and over and over again. And flipping the bird to The Man was a big issue in Black America after the acquittal of the four LA cops following the Rodney King Beating.

 

[Paul V McNutt]

Not for Black Celebrities playing the Race Card. And playing it over and over and over again. And flipping the bird to The Man was a big issue in Black America after the acquittal of the four LA cops following the Rodney King Beating.

If there was no glove demonstration and the jury knew the damming evidence, there would have been a guilty verdict.

 

[Paul V McNutt]

The Defense could also argue that the Deputy Sheriff's testimony had mercenary motives and therefore should be inadmissible. They'd be right.

If Judge Ito had allowed him to testify, I think being a Deputy Sheriff, he would have obeyed the prosecutor and not talked to the press.

 

[Dalekiller]

Truth be Told, OJs punishment after the trial from being found guilty in civil to now is probably a worse punishment than prison.

Let's face it, OJ had a dream team but if he had been found guilty with the tampered evidence there'd be doubt after the fact. However since his not guilty he's been defamed and destroyed every way, all that's left is bodily damage

 

[usertron2020]

If there was no glove demonstration and the jury knew the damming evidence, there would have been a guilty verdict.

NOT WITH THOSE THREE JURORS. A HUNG jury, yes. But no matter WHAT the evidence, the best the prosecution could have ever gotten was a 9-3 to convict. Those three jurors were determined on jury nullification before they were ever sworn in. You had just as much a chance of seeing the Staten Island DA making a sincere attempt to secure indictments against the policeman who chokeheld to death Eric Garner.

IOW, Prosecutorial Nullification.

The Defense could also argue that the Deputy Sheriff's testimony had mercenary motives and therefore should be inadmissible. They'd be right.

If Judge Ito had allowed him to testify, I think being a Deputy Sheriff, he would have obeyed the prosecutor and not talked to the press.

After Fuhrman,and Cochrane's antics over the evidence secured before Fuhrman arrived at the crime scene, I don't think that anyone in uniform was going to impress THAT jury.

Truth be Told, OJs punishment after the trial from being found guilty in civil court now is probably a worse punishment than prison.

I very much doubt that OJ would agree with you.

Let's face it, OJ had a dream team but if he had been found guilty with the (1) tampered evidence there'd be doubt after the fact.

Was this a typo? Because the use of the definitive article in this sentence takes for granted the existence of actually tampered with evidence, as opposed to Cochrane's endless baseless and unchallenged (2) speculation.

2) Yet ANOTHER prosecution screw up, in which Christopher Darden freely admitted to in his book was all his fault, he never considered the following when he got the bright idea of suggesting OJ try on the bloody gloves:

a) The gloves were designed to be very tight fitting

b) After having been drenched in blood, the gloves had shrunk

c) OJ's arthritic hands had actually swollen while in jail

d) OJ was wearing latex gloves under the bloody gloves, making for an even tighter fit since the bloody gloves were not designed for another set of gloves to go on underneath them.

e) With all these factors in play, OJ most DEFINITELY did not want those gloves to fit. Keeping up a little stiffness in his hands would be just the capstone to insure that "...the gloves would not fit."

However since his not guilty he's been defamed

DEFAMED!? The guy recorded ranting and raving on 911 phone calls made by a desperate Nicole Brown-Simpson? The photos showing Nicole's face rendered black and blue with bruises?

and destroyed every way,

Its called justice. At least he's still alive.

all that's left is bodily damage

God forbid. Too many people feel sorry for him as it is.

 

[Paul V McNutt]

NOT WITH THOSE THREE JURORS. A HUNG jury, yes. But no matter WHAT the evidence, the best the prosecution could have ever gotten was a 9-3 to convict. Those three jurors were determined on jury nullification before they were ever sworn in. You had just as much a chance of seeing the Staten Island DA making a sincere attempt to secure indictments against the policeman who chokeheld to death Eric Garner.

If the prosecutors use the damming evidence and don't do the glove demonstration and still get a hung jury, they can talk to the jurors and learn the mistakes the would still have made. OTL the prosecutors did not use all of their challenges. In the second OJ trail they could have asked for the death penalty and gotten a Whiter, more male pro prosecution jury.

 

[SiddFinch1]

He killed them. Little doubt

But a botched investigation and prosecution..Ito actions didn't help matters and the time period in the post king verdict and riots all combined to the mess we had

 

[Paul V McNutt]

Even if Marcia Clark still incompetently withheld the damming evidence and allowed the glove demonstration, there are two witness she wanted to use that could have gotten a hung jury. One is the Deputy Sheriff who could tell the jury about OJ's confession. The other was a women who was driving at the time of the murder. OJ ran a red light a few blocks from Nichole's house and almost crashed into her. She testified to the Grand Jury but then talked to a tabloid tv show. Clark then dropped her. In the beginning of jury deliberations two jurors voted guilty. I think these two witnesses would have given those two jurors the self confidence to hold out. Once again, after the hung jury, the jurors who would have said they would have voted guilty if the knew about the flight, the passport, the disguise, the $ 8000 and the police statement would teach the prosecution about their mistakes. The best case scenario is the second OJ trail is delayed until after the law suit. The excellent lawyering of the plaintiff's attorney would have provided an excellent example for the prosecution.