Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

Marc H wrote "The first is that at present Britain is the senior partner right now. They have the bigger and more experienced Army, Navy and Air Force."

I don't think so. Yes ITTL there is a bit less desperation. Lessons learnt from early Valiants in France led to success in NA and more resources in Singapore etc. However - Britain is skint. It didn't buy all those wonderful tanks designs we've come up with in 1935/36 for good reason. Britain is economically Miss Haversham, in a grand old empire all dressed up but the silverware all got shipped off in 1914 to 1918. Living on visions of Edwardian global superiority and getting back on the gold standard in the 1920s was economic suicide from Chancellor Churchill and he paid the price in the 30s when no one wanted to re-arm. Keynes begged him not to. But it all came down to prestige.

Those wonderful Armoured Carriers, that growing Army are all bought on the HP. It simply cannot afford WW2 without the wealth of the US. In terms of Gold, resources, and manpower. The US will be calling the big shots, listening yes, but also without the plight of the UK being quite so drastic, is the USA really going to spend it's blood and treasure to prop up Empire? In real life - the USA smacked Britain back into place just a few years later with the Suez Crisis.

At this stage, how may divisions to the US have? At this stage, in this timeline, the UK has some of the best tank designs in the world, and is about to start production in the definitive tank of the war.

The UK was skint after the otl ww2, here, holding onto Malaya, Burma (areas of empire that made the UK money) and with greater manpower available (both due to the above, and due to the lack of massive losses in Greece and NA), they’ll be far better off economically.
As others have pointed out opening the med to shopping a year earlier than otl will have massive implications for the UK, like reestablishing some pre war trade routes in the sterling zone, together with huge savings on shipping gong round the cape enabling better usage of those ships.

I really don’t think you’ve properly grasped how different this war will be.
This discussion seems oddly binary. Coalition warfare involves a lot of negotiation. It did IOTL, it does ITTL. Neither side has a whip hand at this point. Britain is the nation most strongly engaged with the most experience and the largest forces (navy, army and airforce) and contrary to the impression that Britain was a spent force, in 1938 they were the fifth largest economy on Earth. Combined with their colonies they were the second. With the Dominions they are approaching the level of the US, though not reaching it. So Britain very much represents a huge amount of military, economic and political power in 1942. The US will not be able to dictate policy to it unilaterally. At the least it would need to have significantly more force on the ground than Britain to do that and it won’t until at least 1944/45.

On the other hand, Britain cannot, and would not, tell the US to stuff it. They desperately need allies in this fight, and the US is worth basically all the other allies they could ask for together. And though US force is more potential than real at this point, that potential is massive, and they do have some real force even at the beginning.

So, they will both do what they did IOTL. Negotiate and coordinate. Britains better position compared to OTL and the early point in US mobilization does give Britain more bargaining power than they had IOTL. But they cannot ignore US views either if they are strongly held.
 
However, unlike Oran Sardinia and Corsica would be open to Axis bombing and shipping to Oran would not be subject to air or surface attacks. In the case of Corsica at least attacks from bases from France as well as Italy.
This. The third problem with invading Sardinia (without first taking Sicily and Southern Italy) is that if it works you end up with a big Malta, which is just as hard to resupply as the original one, though admittedly Sardinia is somewhat further from the mainland than Malta is from Sicily. OTL, keeping Malta provisioned for bare self-defence strained the RN to the limit in 1941-2, never mind trying to use it as an offensive base.

The second problem with taking Sardinia is that it's large and mountainous - you can't just sail into Cagliari and raise the flag. Unless the Italians roll over (will they, when fighting a defensive battle on Italian territory?) , securing the island will require a large number of troops for extended combat operations, which chews up supplies like nothing else. And if the supplies run out before you've secured the whole island, you're looking at a Crete-style disaster.

The first problem with taking Sardinia is that unless you can achieve air superiority over both the landing zones and the sea routes leading to them, there is a high chance that much of your invasion force will end up on the bottom of the Mediterranean before it has the chance to fight anything at all. Without airbases in Algeria/Tunisia it's a non-starter, even with them, Sardinia is significantly farther from Tunis than Normandy is from Portsmouth.
 
At the least it would need to have significantly more force on the ground than Britain to do that and it won’t until at least 1944/45.
This is my point, until the US has substantially more forces in the European theatre, they won’t be able to dominate policy decisions.
On the other hand, Britain cannot, and would not, tell the US to stuff it. They desperately need allies in this fight, and the US is worth basically all the other allies they could ask for together. And though US force is more potential than real at this point, that potential is massive, and they do have some real force even at the beginning.
Never said that they would be so stupid as to tell the US to “stuff it”, so not sure why you bring that up. Simply countering the rather strange view that in this timeline at this point in the war, that the US held the whip hand.
they will both do what they did IOTL. Negotiate and coordinate. Britains better position compared to OTL and the early point in US mobilization does give Britain more bargaining power than they had IOTL. But they cannot ignore US views either if they are strongly held.
Agreed, the relative strength of negotiating positions will change over time, as it did in otl, just that the UK is starting stronger and won’t fade as much.
 
This. The third problem with invading Sardinia (without first taking Sicily and Southern Italy) is that if it works you end up with a big Malta, which is just as hard to resupply as the original one, though admittedly Sardinia is somewhat further from the mainland than Malta is from Sicily. OTL, keeping Malta provisioned for bare self-defence strained the RN to the limit in 1941-2, never mind trying to use it as an offensive base.

The second problem with taking Sardinia is that it's large and mountainous - you can't just sail into Cagliari and raise the flag. Unless the Italians roll over (will they, when fighting a defensive battle on Italian territory?) , securing the island will require a large number of troops for extended combat operations, which chews up supplies like nothing else. And if the supplies run out before you've secured the whole island, you're looking at a Crete-style disaster.

The first problem with taking Sardinia is that unless you can achieve air superiority over both the landing zones and the sea routes leading to them, there is a high chance that much of your invasion force will end up on the bottom of the Mediterranean before it has the chance to fight anything at all. Without airbases in Algeria/Tunisia it's a non-starter, even with them, Sardinia is significantly farther from Tunis than Normandy is from Portsmouth.
I agree with your points. I think in order for it to be successful it has go take Sicily first then Sardinia then Corsica then that ends offensives till ready to land in France.
 
I agree with your points. I think in order for it to be successful it has go take Sicily first then Sardinia then Corsica then that ends offensives till ready to land in France.
LOL......., I think that even German Intelligence could connect those dots... , Result would be far more effort to fortify the South of France, resulting in an weaker Atlantic Wall. The Allies should look to make use of this fear..
 
This. The third problem with invading Sardinia (without first taking Sicily and Southern Italy) is that if it works you end up with a big Malta, which is just as hard to resupply as the original one, though admittedly Sardinia is somewhat further from the mainland than Malta is from Sicily. OTL, keeping Malta provisioned for bare self-defence strained the RN to the limit in 1941-2, never mind trying to use it as an offensive base.

The second problem with taking Sardinia is that it's large and mountainous - you can't just sail into Cagliari and raise the flag. Unless the Italians roll over (will they, when fighting a defensive battle on Italian territory?) , securing the island will require a large number of troops for extended combat operations, which chews up supplies like nothing else. And if the supplies run out before you've secured the whole island, you're looking at a Crete-style disaster.

The first problem with taking Sardinia is that unless you can achieve air superiority over both the landing zones and the sea routes leading to them, there is a high chance that much of your invasion force will end up on the bottom of the Mediterranean before it has the chance to fight anything at all. Without airbases in Algeria/Tunisia it's a non-starter, even with them, Sardinia is significantly farther from Tunis than Normandy is from Portsmouth.
I understand the points you are making but I'm not sure they stand up to scrutiny.

I think we can expect the Italians to be as competent as they were on Sicily. Which means not very. German support will be much reduced compared to Sicily. The ability of the axis to reinforce or resupply will be less than the allies.

Whilst allied air support will be a issue, axis air assets are not as close either (especially to Sardinia). The ability of the allied fleets to operate off Sardinia safely is much greater than at Sicily which means close naval support is more practical.

Allied supplies lines are at least as good as Sicily - main supply transshipment centres included Suez / Alexandria and Oran which are comparable to Gibraltar - Cagliari in distance (and Gibraltar is closer / safer than Oran and much closer than Alexandria)

Not saying it will be easy (the point to some extent is that it is not easy - the US troops need live fire experience). But the logistics favour the Allies not the Axis IMHO.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
Britain stretched thin by her success and the problems with the French.

As I have said before in this and other Time Lines, the principle problem for the British at the start of the war, was how do we win. Where as the principal problem for all of the Axis powers was how do we avoid losing. ITTL thanks to a number of factors, in particular the survival of Sir John and the production of better armoured vehicles, the British have done better than they did IOTL. Right now they UK, is secure from attack, as the Germans are fully committed to the titanic struggle in the East against the Soviet Union. While the German maritime campaign in the Atlantic is proving to be hard but manageable, and with the American entry into the war, will soon become a minor irritant. The British position in the Middle East, North Africa, Mediterranean, and the Far East, is stable, and they will soon be in a position to start to push back, and put their enemies on the back foot. However British resources are stretched very thin, and while they are not scraping the bottom of the barrel. They do need time to consolidate their positions, and lay the groundwork for the next phase of the conflict, and their eventual return to the European mainland and the conclusion of the war. Right now they have two major problems, one is the unrealistic expectations of the Americans, and the other other the French in North Africa.

And right now it’s the French who are being the major fly in the ointment, between De Gaulle who was very much not a puppet of the British, but was a serious pain in the butt. And Weygand, who in addition to being well over the hill, is also living in fantasy land, and failing to face up to the realities of the situation. Which when you add in the Americans, who can not leave the situation alone, but have to stick their oar in to the mix, mostly without consulting the British first, and reaching an agreed agenda. And thus making the situation worse, as the British and Americans didn’t present a united front to the French, and they the French are able to play one side against the other, and introduce tensions between the two sides. Weygand is allowing his own personal prejudices to colour his responses to the various proposals put forth towards him. He is very much of the old school, and is wrapped in the honour of France and the honour of the French Army. He had retired from the army at the age of 68 in 1935, and thus was 73 when he took command of the French forces in 1940, in other words not only was he too old, he was also out of date. By 1942 he is 75, and has very little experience with mobile forces, and being stuck in North Africa, no opportunity to gain such experience, he doesn’t have the kit or the resources to conduct large scale exercises.

He is also very tied into the Vichy system, and regards himself as both his former commanders subordinate, and a true believer in the virtues of the Vichy regime. He was also very delusional believing that the British needed him, far more than they did, were as by now the British knew that they could easily invade and replace him, with someone more complacent. As for the threat from Franco, unlike the Americans, the British had been playing the game far longer, and not only had they fully compromised his regime, and were receiving constant reports from inside, they knew just how weak was his control over Spain was. Franco was reliant on the British and Americans to feed his people, and provided the essential fuel to keep the Spanish economy running. He despite his bluster wasn’t going to invade Gibraltar, or take an active part in the war against the British or Americans. His support for the Germans was a convenient method of disposing his most virulent opponents, by sending them off to take part in the battle against International Communism in the Soviet Union, and preferably dyeing at the same time. Even without Weygand’s cooperation the British are now in a position to start to run convoys through the Mediterranean, and shorten the route to the East and Egypt.

Yes they will have to escort them past Sicily, and risk suffering air attacks, but the threat is no where near as severe as it appears to be. Not only are the Sicilian narrows not that narrow, Italy doesn’t have ether the aircraft, fuel and resources to conduct a prolonged campaign against the British as they push a weekly convoy through the Mediterranean. While at the same time being subjected to an increasing number of air attacks on Sicily from Malta and Tunisia, by both day and night. Each time the British escort a convoy past Sicily the escorts will get better, while the Italians will suffer under a constant increasing pressure, which will degrade their performance bit by bit. Do the British need to invade Sicily at this present time, no, given the increasing weakness of the Italians, they can basically find workarounds, until they accomplish the thing that infuriates the Americans. It’s time to tidy up the battlefield, and sort out the mess that the Japanese involvement in the war has created. Time to resolve the situation in the Eastern Mediterranean with both the French in the Levent, and the Italians in the Dodecanese. Time to put a number of ships who are in desperate need of major services and refits into dockyard hands. Time to swap Army and Airforce formations around, with the most experienced officers and men being transferred either home or elsewhere to rest and/or provide carders for new units. During this time it is possible that the need to invade French North Africa will disappear, as changes in the government/administration will cause them to switch sides. Both Uncle Benito and Weygand are sitting on very uneasy thrones right now, and there is a good chance that they might find themselves turfed out and replaced by more realistic people. People who are in light of the current situation prepared to do a deal with the British, in the best interests of the nation.

For the Americans this isn’t the 1942 OOTL, the British are not on the ropes desperately hanging on awaiting the American calvary to come over the hill and rescue them. In fact the British are very far from being on the ropes, but they do need the bell to go and get a chance to grab their breath, have a seat and absorb what their trainer is telling them and rinse out their mouth while gathering their wits. 1942 is going to be mostly a year of consolidation and preparation for the next round, and trying desperately to get the Americans to come to an agreement about the way forward. They have the problem that they themselves haven’t decided yet what direction they want to go, the internal conflict between the German first and the Japan first, despite what their President says, is still very much on the table. And when you add in trying to coordinate with the British, who very much have ideas of their own, and would much prefer to sit down around a big table with a nice cup of tea and come to an agreement. And ITTL a apposed to ours, the British are going to be more forceful in presenting their case, much to the disquiet of the Americans. And given that the British are far more experienced in committee work, which was a vital skill for signor British officials both militarily and civilian. I would expect that the Americans ITTL are going to find themselves agreeing to courses of action that they are not happy with.

RR.
 
...I think we can expect the Italians to be as competent as they were on Sicily. Which means not very. German support will be much reduced compared to Sicily. The ability of the axis to reinforce or resupply will be less than the allies...
Depends which units the Italians have lost so far in this timeline. Even at second El Alamein in 1942 in the original timeline, they had some pretty stubborn, brave, soldiers going for them still, who impressed Rommel (not that that stopped him using them to cover German backsides.)
 
31 March 1942. Murmansk, CCCP.
31 March 1942. Murmansk, CCCP.

The surviving fourteen merchant ships of PQ13 began arriving in port, and work began unloading them immediately. Of the nineteen merchant ships that had sailed from Iceland, two had been sunk by German U-boats, two by Luftwaffe aircraft and one by a German destroyer. The Royal Navy escorts in reply had sunk two U-boats and the destroyer Z26, but HMS Trinidad had been struck by a torpedo (believed to be self-inflicted), and would need substantial repairs. The weather was partly to blame, HMS Trinidad, Eclipse and Fury the main escorts, like the merchant men, had been scattered by severe gales, allowing the German attacks to concentrate on individual ships rather than them having the collective protection of the convoy.

The loss of five ships, more than a quarter of the convoy, was a matter of great concern. The Home Fleet, including HMS Duke of York, Renown, King George V and the carrier HMS Victorious, had provided distant cover for both the outbound PQ 13 convoy, and the returning QP 9. During the previous convoys (PQ12 and QP8) Albacore aircraft from HMS Victorious failed to hit the German battleship Tirpitz with a single torpedo, which meant that Tirpitz, Admiral Scheer, Lutzow and Hipper were still threats, but the concern in the Admiralty was that the weather was every bit as much a threat.

Work on creating a route through Persia into southern Russia to bring Lend Lease Aid was still at a very early stage of development. Until it was fully operational, the convoys would have to continue, with all the inherent risks that involved. The Soviets were adamant that the material arriving in its northern ports was essential to keeping them in the war. While the numbers of Valiant, M3 Medium and Light tanks were an important part of the cargoes, there were many other crucial supplies that had been shipped from Halifax, New York and Liverpool.

Note: All this is as OTL
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
So a convoy to Russia has suffered just over 25% losses, which is steep but unusual, and for a more realistic picture it would be better to take the percentage of merchant vessels lost, over the total number of convoys sailed. Provided that number is less than five percent loss rate, the British will find the number acceptable. Despite what many believe far more convoys sailed without loss, or even any encounter with the enemy, than those which did suffer losses or encounters. It was possible for a merchant seaman to make numerous sailings throughout the war and never see a single ship go down. While others could be a real Uncle Albert and see a ship go down every time they sailed out to sea, life can be very fickle. We the Americans now in the war and production of everything really beginning to ramp up, it shouldn’t be too long before the size of the convoys doubles, and the escorts in addition to becoming more professional, increase dramatically.

RR.
 
31 March 1942. Murmansk, CCCP.

The surviving fourteen merchant ships of PQ13 began arriving in port, and work began unloading them immediately. Of the nineteen merchant ships that had sailed from Iceland, two had been sunk by German U-boats, two by Luftwaffe aircraft and one by a German destroyer. The Royal Navy escorts in reply had sunk two U-boats and the destroyer Z26, but HMS Trinidad had been struck by a torpedo (believed to be self-inflicted), and would need substantial repairs. The weather was partly to blame, HMS Trinidad, Eclipse and Fury the main escorts, like the merchant men, had been scattered by severe gales, allowing the German attacks to concentrate on individual ships rather than them having the collective protection of the convoy.

The loss of five ships, more than a quarter of the convoy, was a matter of great concern. The Home Fleet, including HMS Duke of York, Renown, King George V and the carrier HMS Victorious, had provided distant cover for both the outbound PQ 13 convoy, and the returning QP 9. During the previous convoys (PQ12 and QP8) Albacore aircraft from HMS Victorious failed to hit the German battleship Tirpitz with a single torpedo, which meant that Tirpitz, Admiral Scheer, Lutzow and Hipper were still threats, but the concern in the Admiralty was that the weather was every bit as much a threat.

Work on creating a route through Persia into southern Russia to bring Lend Lease Aid was still at a very early stage of development. Until it was fully operational, the convoys would have to continue, with all the inherent risks that involved. The Soviets were adamant that the material arriving in its northern ports was essential to keeping them in the war. While the numbers of Valiant, M3 Medium and Light tanks were an important part of the cargoes, there were many other crucial supplies that had been shipped from Halifax, New York and Liverpool.

Note: All this is as OTL
threadmark is missing
@allanpcameron
 
Thanks for the update @allanpcameron.

I wonder if this will lead to Combined Ops HQ & the US Army deciding the Med is a sideshow and North Norway is a good “warmup” for Normandy.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
Thanks for the update @allanpcameron.

I wonder if this will lead to Combined Ops HQ & the US Army deciding the Med is a sideshow and North Norway is a good “warmup” for Normandy.

Short answer no, long answer hell no, remember that the US Army is totally against actions against the periphery, they want to hit the Germans in France and drive straight to Berlin. As for the British Combined Ops, they know that any attempt to invade Norway is going nowhere, Norway in fact serves a useful purpose, it’s a good training ground for Special Forces and amphibious operations, while absorbing large numbers of German troops, that would be much more useful to the Germans elsewhere. As for the Americans regarding the Mediterranean as a sideshow, it was only the necessity of keeping the British on side and getting some much needed training in amphibious assault using the American Army, along with blooding their forces against the Germans, that saw them involved in the Mediterranean IOTL. And once the campaign in North Africa along with the successful assault on Sicily and Italy, their only remaining interest was the invasion of Southern France. They had no interest in Greece or Yugoslavia, and couldn’t care less about the drive into Austria from Italy. And did withdraw their best units from Italy to England to take part in the invasion of Northern France, as did the British. ITTL I would expect them to have very little interest in the Mediterranean, and concentrated the vast majority of their resources in England in preparation for the assault on Northern France and the subsequent drive to Berlin.

RR.
 
Britain stretched thin by her success and the problems with the French.

As I have said before in this and other Time Lines, the principle problem for the British at the start of the war, was how do we win. Where as the principal problem for all of the Axis powers was how do we avoid losing. ITTL thanks to a number of factors, in particular the survival of Sir John and the production of better armoured vehicles, the British have done better than they did IOTL. Right now they UK, is secure from attack, as the Germans are fully committed to the titanic struggle in the East against the Soviet Union. While the German maritime campaign in the Atlantic is proving to be hard but manageable, and with the American entry into the war, will soon become a minor irritant. The British position in the Middle East, North Africa, Mediterranean, and the Far East, is stable, and they will soon be in a position to start to push back, and put their enemies on the back foot. However British resources are stretched very thin, and while they are not scraping the bottom of the barrel. They do need time to consolidate their positions, and lay the groundwork for the next phase of the conflict, and their eventual return to the European mainland and the conclusion of the war. Right now they have two major problems, one is the unrealistic expectations of the Americans, and the other other the French in North Africa.

And right now it’s the French who are being the major fly in the ointment, between De Gaulle who was very much not a puppet of the British, but was a serious pain in the butt. And Weygand, who in addition to being well over the hill, is also living in fantasy land, and failing to face up to the realities of the situation. Which when you add in the Americans, who can not leave the situation alone, but have to stick their oar in to the mix, mostly without consulting the British first, and reaching an agreed agenda. And thus making the situation worse, as the British and Americans didn’t present a united front to the French, and they the French are able to play one side against the other, and introduce tensions between the two sides. Weygand is allowing his own personal prejudices to colour his responses to the various proposals put forth towards him. He is very much of the old school, and is wrapped in the honour of France and the honour of the French Army. He had retired from the army at the age of 68 in 1935, and thus was 73 when he took command of the French forces in 1940, in other words not only was he too old, he was also out of date. By 1942 he is 75, and has very little experience with mobile forces, and being stuck in North Africa, no opportunity to gain such experience, he doesn’t have the kit or the resources to conduct large scale exercises.

He is also very tied into the Vichy system, and regards himself as both his former commanders subordinate, and a true believer in the virtues of the Vichy regime. He was also very delusional believing that the British needed him, far more than they did, were as by now the British knew that they could easily invade and replace him, with someone more complacent. As for the threat from Franco, unlike the Americans, the British had been playing the game far longer, and not only had they fully compromised his regime, and were receiving constant reports from inside, they knew just how weak was his control over Spain was. Franco was reliant on the British and Americans to feed his people, and provided the essential fuel to keep the Spanish economy running. He despite his bluster wasn’t going to invade Gibraltar, or take an active part in the war against the British or Americans. His support for the Germans was a convenient method of disposing his most virulent opponents, by sending them off to take part in the battle against International Communism in the Soviet Union, and preferably dyeing at the same time. Even without Weygand’s cooperation the British are now in a position to start to run convoys through the Mediterranean, and shorten the route to the East and Egypt.

Yes they will have to escort them past Sicily, and risk suffering air attacks, but the threat is no where near as severe as it appears to be. Not only are the Sicilian narrows not that narrow, Italy doesn’t have ether the aircraft, fuel and resources to conduct a prolonged campaign against the British as they push a weekly convoy through the Mediterranean. While at the same time being subjected to an increasing number of air attacks on Sicily from Malta and Tunisia, by both day and night. Each time the British escort a convoy past Sicily the escorts will get better, while the Italians will suffer under a constant increasing pressure, which will degrade their performance bit by bit. Do the British need to invade Sicily at this present time, no, given the increasing weakness of the Italians, they can basically find workarounds, until they accomplish the thing that infuriates the Americans. It’s time to tidy up the battlefield, and sort out the mess that the Japanese involvement in the war has created. Time to resolve the situation in the Eastern Mediterranean with both the French in the Levent, and the Italians in the Dodecanese. Time to put a number of ships who are in desperate need of major services and refits into dockyard hands. Time to swap Army and Airforce formations around, with the most experienced officers and men being transferred either home or elsewhere to rest and/or provide carders for new units. During this time it is possible that the need to invade French North Africa will disappear, as changes in the government/administration will cause them to switch sides. Both Uncle Benito and Weygand are sitting on very uneasy thrones right now, and there is a good chance that they might find themselves turfed out and replaced by more realistic people. People who are in light of the current situation prepared to do a deal with the British, in the best interests of the nation.

For the Americans this isn’t the 1942 OOTL, the British are not on the ropes desperately hanging on awaiting the American calvary to come over the hill and rescue them. In fact the British are very far from being on the ropes, but they do need the bell to go and get a chance to grab their breath, have a seat and absorb what their trainer is telling them and rinse out their mouth while gathering their wits. 1942 is going to be mostly a year of consolidation and preparation for the next round, and trying desperately to get the Americans to come to an agreement about the way forward. They have the problem that they themselves haven’t decided yet what direction they want to go, the internal conflict between the German first and the Japan first, despite what their President says, is still very much on the table. And when you add in trying to coordinate with the British, who very much have ideas of their own, and would much prefer to sit down around a big table with a nice cup of tea and come to an agreement. And ITTL a apposed to ours, the British are going to be more forceful in presenting their case, much to the disquiet of the Americans. And given that the British are far more experienced in committee work, which was a vital skill for signor British officials both militarily and civilian. I would expect that the Americans ITTL are going to find themselves agreeing to courses of action that they are not happy with.

RR.
Yes. Everything here. Now can we all collectively stop wasting tme on which minor med island may or may not get invaded. Uncle Sam is in Play. Uncle Joe taking the punches. Brits children of my generation may enjoy Thai Green Curry. Where next, big picture....
 
Yes. Everything here. Now can we all collectively stop wasting tme on which minor med island may or may not get invaded. Uncle Sam is in Play. Uncle Joe taking the punches. Brits children of my generation may enjoy Thai Green Curry. Where next, big picture....
Probably best to break the Japanese and if possible get the Thai's out of the war and then move into Indochina. All things that can be done with secondary or older forces. Then in Europe take a year to build up (probably with a few experimental landings on easy targets but not the full blown Italian campaign) and massage France and possibly Italy to change sides/rise when they launch a hammer and anvil attack from East and West in 1944.

That gives a year for rest and refit and also without the steamroller coming the other way Normandy could find itself properly opposed.
 
Problem is whatever happens in Italy will depend on what actions Germany takes in response if it decides to withdraw from the war and seek a peace.

WAllies will have to react though if they get invited in by the Italians and have a ready force it makes things simple
 
1 April 1942. Singapore.
1 April 1942. Singapore.

Lieutenant General Alan Cunningham, with his staff, listened to the latest update from Lieutenant-General Ivan Mackay (GOC II Australian Corps). Japanese resistance was firming up, it seemed that reinforcements, probably 2nd Infantry Division, had arrived in northern Malaya. The Japanese troops were fresh, while the Australians were fast running out of steam. The desire to knock the Japanese back past Jitra to the Thai border was realistically not feasible, in Mackay’s opinion. Cunningham listened to various staff reports, especially the Quartermaster General, and finally agreed that Mackay’s men had done as much as humanly possible for the moment.

Lieutenant General Lewis Heath (GOC III Indian Corps) agreed to move his three Divisions up to Alor Star to allow the Australians to move back for a rest and refit. Once in position Cunningham asked Heath to give an assessment of the chances of attacking the Japanese, or whether to dig in until after the monsoon rains. The next Durban-Malaya Convoy (DM 4) had departed South Africa and was expected to arrive in the next week or so. This convoy would bring all of 51st (Highland Division) and part of 1st Division. WS 17, had just departed Glasgow and Liverpool with the rest of 1st Division and 4th Division, so they could expect DM 5 in mid-May, completing V Corps. It would take time for V Corps to become ready, which would mean it would be after the Monsoon anyway before Cunningham’s 12th Army was complete and ready to go.

In addition to V Corps, Cunningham was happy to confirm that part of the Australian 1st Armoured Division were about to leave Australia for Malaya. The first echelon had sailed and their first task would be to set up their depots alongside the Royal Armoured Corps’ in Johor. The 1st Australian Armoured Brigade (1st AAB) would follow, equipped with Stuart M3 Light tanks. 2nd AAB was now fully equipped with Grant M3 Medium tanks, but weren’t yet ready for deployment. 4th Motor Brigade (formerly 4th Cavalry Brigade [6th, 7th and 14th Light Horse]), like 2nd AAB weren’t ready for overseas operations.

Lt-Gen Cunningham then asked for an update from Brigadier Michael Hedderwick, CO of the Malaya Tank Brigade (4th, 7th & 11th Bn RTR). Hedderwick noted that 7th Bn RTR were still forward supporting Australian II Corps, and were in a poor state regarding serviceability of the tanks and the tiredness of the men. 11th Bn RTR, the first tank Battalion in Malaya had now been refreshed and rested, it was back at full strength and 4th Bn RTR, having arrived in January, were finishing an exercise to test their readiness to become operational. Another Tank Brigade was due to arrive to join V Corps, and hopefully there would be enough spare Matilda II tanks aboard DM 4 to bring 7th Bn RTR back up to strength. 11th Bn RTR had worked well with the Indian III Corps previously, if a tank battalion was to be attached to Indian III Corps would be ready, willing and able. Hedderwick expressed the anxiety that normally a Tank Brigade would provide one Battalion (58 tanks) to each of the Divisions in the Corps. Until 11th Bn RTR was back and restored, then Hedderwick could only offer two Battalions to Lt-Gen Heath. Heath was delighted, previously he’d only had one, double that was a real advantage, even if three would have been perfect.

Air Vice Marshall Pulford then gave his assessment of the situation of the war in the air. The reinforcements for the RAF that had arrived in DM3 were beginning to become operational. While listening to the army’s update, Pulford had pressed for the seizure of the airfield of Alor Star to enable it to be brought back into service. With the information given he accepted that the chances were that it would be too close to the front line to be of much use. Pulford was happy to report that Sungei Patani and some of the landing fields around Butterworth were operational. Squadrons of Hurricanes, Tomahawks and Bristol Blenheims were now based at Sungei Patani, giving the aircraft and their crews more time above the front line and able to reach some of the Thai airfields used by the Japanese. The establishment of a robust radar and early warning system was the next priority to be completed, and was on course to be so.

The Blenheim bombers had given a great service, but were becoming more and more obsolescent. The Desert Air Force was meant to be receiving Martin Baltimores, but they would carry on with the older Marylands in the meantime. The Baltimores were now being earmarked for India and Malaya, with No 223 Squadron RAF being an Operational Training Unit working in India. No 52 and 55 RAF and No 454 and 459 Squadrons RAAF, withdrawn from the Middle East were currently training on the Lend Lease aircraft. These four squadrons would be based in Malaya, arriving sometime in May/June, to provide 12th Army with reconnaissance/bomber support. More squadrons would transition in due course and support General Alexander’s command.

Pulford was able to report that Bristol Beauforts and Beaufighters were increasingly active. The Beauforts were acting in the maritime reconnaissance/torpedo bombing role, while the Beaufighters were a mixture of night fighters and long-range fighters. The arrival of two squadrons of Wellingtons, now based in Singapore, with two more to follow, at long last gave the RAF the kind of offensive bombing capability that it desperately needed. All in all, Pulford was quite upbeat about the situation in his area of command. He did note that Spitfires had finally been shipped out of England and were operational on Malta. It was his greatest desire to see the arrival of these fighters in Malaya, but, he admitted, he wouldn’t hold his breath!
 
Over all letting the Australians pull back to catch their breath is a good move right now with the IJA digging in its the right time to do it and rotate fresh formations onto the line.

With all the additionals comming DUKEs way in Malaysia is will really go a long way to turn things more their way. Thougn the Japanese have stopped their bleeding for now they are still hurting and unless they can get fresh supplies the Monsoons will be a nightmare.
 
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